Cool story, bro!
I’m on day five of some of the most intensely personal and soul-wrenching attacks that I have experienced in my lifetime: Attacks on me for being too sensitive about race. Attacks on me about enjoying being offended about race or seeing everything through the prism of race. Attacks on me for being mentally or emotionally unstable or a drama queen. Attacks on me for being angry and losing my temper, thereby making my grievances easily ignored (that will be explained further below). Attacks on me for failing to focus on other liberal issues (feminism, the growing plutocracy) aside from what some white liberals see as “my” or “black people” issues. (Note that issues affecting the black community tend to be construed as only our issues, and never progressive or liberal issues.)
I would like to set that aside for a moment and explain a little bit about me, so, hopefully, those who witnessed “The Sunday Wrangle” or who saw the wrangle through Joan Walsh and Zaid Jilani’s frame of reference will understand my perspective, and, hopefully, those who perceived my “outburst” last night as being “vile” or “bad” will either amend that thinking or, at least, will attempt to understand.
Tumer Willis or “What Are You Angry About?”
When I began blogging nearly four years ago, I had recently found out that I have a mass in my brain. It’s called a pituitary adenoma, more specifically a microprolactinoma, which essentially makes my body think it’s pregnant when it’s not. (Awesome, right?) Now for you women out there who are or have ever been pregnant, you can understand what I’m talking about. Hormones are a tricky business, and they can affect one’s emotions in ways that are seemingly rational at the time but upon reflection are straight up crazypants.
My whole life, I’ve never been an angry person. Loud. Boisterous. Really Loud. Inappropriate. Snarky. Hyperactive. Sarcastic. Easily Excitable. Did I mention loud? But not angry — not really. I don’t fight, except for a handful of those high school yelly girly fights where the one person is all, “You’re being such a bitch right now!” and the other person is all, “ME?! What about you? You’re the one who uses all the toilet paper yet refuses to buy any because it’s, like, against your religion or something.” “Oh yeah, well I hate you!” “GOOD!”
But that’s about as far as my aggressive nature goes. That may seem odd, given my unique and, admittedly, in-your-face writing style, but those who know me or who have bothered to read any of my writing know that hyperbole, whimsy, and irreverence, with a side of profanity is what I do. It’s how I write. It’s how I enjoy writing. When you spend 10 years reading and writing legal briefs, the last thing you want to do is slap up a boring academic post up onto your blog, MIRITE? No? Well, who asked you, anyway.
At any rate, in terms of personality traits, anger was not on the list — until Tumer Willis came on the scene. (That’s what I call my tumor. Why? Well, did you read what I wrote about being whimsical and irreverent?)
The flashes of anger that occasionally would overwhelm me were an entirely new experience. Quick story: When I was on a law firm retreat in Atlanta in 2008, I got a flare up of such red hot anger while trying to pack a suitcase that I punched it because it wouldn’t close. It hurt my hand, which, of course, made me burst into tears and curse that stupid suitcase. (Later, when I relayed that story to a friend, she totally had my back: “That suitcase was an asshole.”)
Incidentally, being prone to crying like a damn fool for no doggone reason was also not on the list of my personal traits. Hand to Bieber, I have turned into a leaky faucet and it annoys me to no end. I once opened the refrigerator and when I saw that the fridge light had gone out, I burst into tears. “WHHHHHY? I can’t see where the milk is!!”
I know. It’s ridiculous.
The point of all this is to say that it is understandable (albeit the result of an eensyteensy bit of stereotyping on your part) that you might view me as some sort of Black Nationalist, neo-Black Panther, a fist pick shoved in her 4 inch afro, who would kick your ass just as soon as look at you.
But really, I’m not. I’m just a 5 foot 3 nerd with a really big mouth, a lot to say, and a frakin’ tumor in her brain.1
Now, I know what you’re thinking. “Oh mah lord, she’s emotionally unstable! She’s prone to fits of the vapors!!”
Not so, my friends. I can set a watch by my hormones. I know when the crazy is going to hit and let’s just say, the crazy didn’t hit this weekend. The anger did.
I need to make perfectly clear that what pushed me to the brink yesterday was anger at the virulent and repeated attacks on my identity — on my person.
The Great Slagging of ABL 
I won’t go into the gory details of the three day siege at Balloon Juice. You can go read all about it over there (I advise against it; it was an obnoxious affair, filled with dumbnuttery, steaming cups of stupid, and privilege – good old-fashioned (mostly) white privilege). You can also read about it here and here and here on ABLC.
Suffice it to say, that it sucked; I took it very personally; and I agonized over how to address the issue so that I would be taken seriously, and not be categorically deemed a “drama queen” or “mentally unstable” or, yes, even “racist.” (Despite my best efforts, I was deemed all of those things anyway.)
Let me put it this way: If any feminist were sitting in a room full of misogynists (or misogynists lite) trying to make her voice heard about issues important to her, and she was repeatedly shot down, I would expect that feminist would be very irate indeed, if a man called her concerns “cheap feminist politics.”
I can imagine that feminist would be infuriated for being told by a group of men who had benefited, if not taken outright advantage of all the fruits of the patriarchal tree known as the United States –remember, the Lily Ledbetter Pay Act just passed last year — that her concerns were not relevant. In a society rigged against women, a man telling a woman to shut up is an attack on her core – her identity. Similarly, in a society rigged against minorities, a white or otherwise privileged person (even a privileged minority) calling minority concerns “cheap racial politics” is beyond the pale.
On Saturday, I tried to open up a dialogue about race at Balloon Juice. And yet again, it sucked. In great quantities. It was painful.
I yelled.
I laughed.
I cried.
It was so much worse than CATS.
I managed to brush it off, and on Saturday night, I went to go see Prince. On Sunday, I was happy as a clam, basking in the Prince afterglow, and minding my own business until a blogger, Zaid Jilani at Think Progress, attacked me out of nowhere.
But let me back up:
As background, Jilani had tweet-baited me a few weeks prior because I dared express disagreement with Glenn Greenwald’s latest hackneyed theory about how gross we petty Americans are for celebrating in our own way the demise of Osama Bin Laden. Jilani lobbed the predictable insults: “At least Glenn has principles.” “Sad to see libs giving up on civil liberties.” Then he implied that I was mentally ill and obsessed with Greenwald, even though I had just explained to him the rational basis for my disagreements with Greenwald. But, Jilani had an agenda and was not interested in listening. He was interested only in spouting off. So I wrote him off as a kook.
Yesterday at around 3 pm after a welcome respite from the jackals at Balloon Juice, and feeling calm enough to wade back into the madness, I took my dog for a walk, and finally read asiangrrlMN’s post, “An Open Letter to White Liberals: My Frank Opinions on Race.” And it hit me. Hard.
And then I read the comments, and they also hit me. Hard. Mostly because of the empathy and compassion contained in those comments, empathy and compassion that was largely absent during the previous days at Balloon Juice. As I walked and read asiangrrlMN’s post and comments, I began to feel a little raw again. (Obviously, not that raw because let’s face it, homegirl sang my praises and I didn’t even have to blackmail her!) But still, her magnificent post resurrected nagging questions: What am I doing? Why do I bother? How is it these people who are supposed to be my “allies” are blithely informing me that I have no right to feel the way I do about a comment that was blatantly offensive? These thoughts would run through my mind, and then I’d get all snifflepants again.
I was moved by her post, so I fired off a tweet thanking asiangrrlMN, immediately after which I got hit with the following tweet from Zaid Jilani:
“Huh?” was my reaction. (As you can see from the below tweet.)
And then came the tweet that figuratively knocked my socks right off:
“What?! Seriously!?” As his message sank further in, and wormed its way into my soul, I got sad, frustrated, and finally furious.
I was literally shaking with fury.
How dare he! It seemed pointed. Coordinated. Designed to inflict damage. He said the worst thing he could have possibly said to a black blogger blogging about black stuff, and I believe that he did so intentionally. How anyone could categorize my “cause” if you will, as “cheap” especially when that “cause” is necessarily intertwined with the sum total of my life experiences, the core of my being and my very identity, and in the same tweet outlandishly claim that I ignore the bombing of brown people?
This man knew nothing about me. All he knew is that I disagreed with the manner in which one of his heroes makes his arguments, that is through sneering, condescension, followed by a refusal to respond when asked pointed questions about his cockeyed theories. No. To Mr. Jilani, that I would DARE criticize Glenn Greenwald meant, ipso facto, that I was in favor of bombing brown people.
To read this statement is to understand its distastefulness.
Of course I don’t favor bombing brown people. Nor do I favor the rantings of a one-note idealogue with great ideas on how things SHOULD be but no sense whatsoever of how things CAN be when balanced against all else that a president must accomplish before an idea becomes reality.
Close Gitmo? Capital idea, mate! But maybe get Congress behind it, old chap!
The tweets kept coming, one after the other. Each more ignorant than the last.
[HERE WOULD BE A GOOD SPOT TO STOP AND READ THE CHIRPSTORY ON THE SECOND PAGE, IF YOU ARE SO INCLINED]
Now, as I continued reading his tweets, it struck me: THIS GUY HADN’T EVEN READ THE POST IN QUESTION. He had been looking for a reason to attack me (because I was mean to Glenn, boo hoo!) and he seized upon what he thought would garner him the most damage points. The title of the article I had just tweeted: “An Open Letter to White Liberals.”
If he were brighter than a 3 watt bulb, the fact that I hadn’t written the post would have been immediately apparent. But you can’t stop a man with a mission. He kept digging. Until he made a statement so preposterous and stupid that I’m fairly certain I lost some brain cells when I read it.
So, there you have it. According to Jilani, if you’re liberal and (or?) voted for Obama, you’re free and clear.
That statement is so obscenely stupid, that to say it is to feel the stupid wash over you.
My friend @vcthree explained it best:
“So you honestly think can wrap yourself in the liberal flag, and by acclamation not be racist, classist, sexist, misandrist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, or just plain moronic…just because? Is it necessary to point out how many of you say the same things of Republicans and “patriotism?” How does that sound? “I don’t want to hear about your issues, and you’re race baiting. Stop it! I’m not a bigot because I’m Liberal!” Oh, bullshit. Look at your roster of media representatives; of columnists, pundits, and hosts of programs on radio and television. How many Black faces? How many Black men? Not that many (probably more Black men than women); when I can count 5-8 total regulars over three major cable networks, and each network has at least 4 pundit-based shows on their air at any given day-part, that isn’t much at all. Not to mention that all of you know each other in one small way or another.
It’s easy to understand, then, how some Progressive/Liberal commentators try to pretend to speak with authority on race issues, to the very people who have been such authority—with almost absolute expertise in the field—for centuries. They have the microphone, and we don’t. So we, who don’t know what’s good for them, must then shut up and listen to those with the mic. Additionally, it’s irritating enough that happens; the next step is to buy back intellectual favor by aligning themselves with a coincidental event or figure in Black history. As if that somehow justifies being ignorant now.
…
Just because you attended a lecture on racism, doesn’t mean that you understand what it is to experience it. You don’t. Just because you voted for President Obama, that doesn’t give you a “Black Pass,” nor does it offer you any cover to deflect race issues to him, and go forth on your own issues, expecting POC’s to follow you. It doesn’t. We’re not a monolith, but issues that affect us aren’t supposed to be ignored so generically and monolithically, as some Progressives tend to do, and often. And I don’t want to hear about allies and allegiances; you aren’t my ally if you’re actively dismissing and ignoring my issues, because you can and it’s convenient for you. However, if you’re asking me what you can do to help, and getting involved in that help; then, in that moment, are we allies. Then.
Needless to say, the exchange left me livid.
This guy — a reporter for Think Progress — one of the few remaining progressive blogs I regularly frequent — picked a fight with me about a post I hadn’t written, without having read the post about which he was whinging, and without bothering to read the byline of the post; and in the process managed to offend me in the most gross manner possible, by calling racial politics “cheap.”
Does that sit well with you? It didn’t sit well with me. At all. (And it shouldn’t sit well with Think Progress, either.) There are so few prominent and quality progressive blogs, why would the owners of that blog want to be associated with an individual who so disdainfully denigrates part of Obama’s core base?
Did Jilani just feel like lashing out at me and acting like an asshat? Because of Glenn Greenwald? Really? A guy who ignored my post referencing Article 42 of the United Nations and its relationship to US military action in Libya. A guy who ignored a sound legal basis for arguing that his outrage about al-Awlaki is not grounded in law, but rather in fantasy?
Maybe Jilani is an asshat. That’s not for me to say. I generally try to criticize a person’s actions or words, rather than his or her character ((although I sometimes fail as I did last night). It’s basic interpersonal relations, and I failed at it: Never say “you are such a jerk,” you say “you are acting like a jerk right now and it makes me feel like setting something on fire.”
But my failures in etiquette aside, Jilani proceeded to throw bombs as other black Twitterati chimed in to voice their WTF? It got progressively worse as he kept digging and digging until eventually, he finally slinked off.
Despite his attempts to engage me into an extended Twitter brawl, I bowed out early on. I’d had enough and wanted a day of rest. But that was not to be, thanks to Joan Walsh. Again.
Kerfuffles with Joan 
Prior to my first kerfuffle with Joan Walsh, I firmly saw her as a person who belong to the 90% of liberals asiangrrlMN mentions in this post–
Before we get started, I have to clarify something. In talking about race, I find that roughly ninety percent* of the white liberals** engaged in the discussion can understand some of what I’m saying or are at least willing to discuss it with an open mind. A sizably-smaller portion of that ninety percent really get it. However, that leaves about ten percent of white liberal people who are clueless at best when it comes to race–hateful and/or malicious at worst. Yes, liberals. The big-tent party. The party of tolerance and openness and whatnot. I say that with tongue firmly in cheek because while I believe the ideals of the Democratic Party are in line with that kind of thinking, sadly, I often find the reality to be much less savory.
How do you know if you fit into that ten percent? I’ll give you some pointers. If you think we’re past racism in this country or that we are post-racial because hey, we elected a black man, that’s a flag of at least cluelessness. Other indicators are the thought that people of color are too vocal about racism, that we see racism everywhere, that we should be past it, that it wasn’t meant, that, that, that….In other words, too much explaining and excusing going on. Voting for Obama does not make one not racist or racially-insensitive or whatnot. In fact, starting a sentence with I’m not racist, but, or some of my best friends are black, Asian, Latino, pretty much guarantees that the next words coming out of your mouth are going to be viewed with suspicion by the person whom you are addressing.
– you know, the kind of person who while privileged, seemed willing to openly talk about these issues, and to do so in a way that would not be patronizing or condescending.
In fact, last year I wrote a laudatory post about Walsh’s appearance on the O’Reilly Factor, and my view that she firmly stood her ground, and argued her points in an efficient and effective manner without falling prey to Bill O’Reilly’s special brand of douchebaggery. I remember following her stream on Twitter at that time, as she nervously preparing for the interview, and sought comments and advice from her Twitter followers. I remember thinking, “She’s pretty solid.”
Then about eight months later, she inartfully tweeted that she “resented” blacks who claim to be the base, and got into a tussle about it with the mighty Truthrose. (I wrote about that here.)
Walsh later walked that comment back, stating that she resented blacks who claimed that they and only they were the base. Of course, no one — not even Ishmael Reed, about whom Walsh had written the offending post — ever made such a claim. It was, frankly, a lie — one that she has yet to apologize for despite her knowledge that it was and is a lie. I wrote, what I believe to be a measured fair response. I never heard anything from her. Certainly, she had no obligation to respond, but I found it interesting that when Karoli (of Crooks and Liars) wrote a post about it, Joan Walsh immediately responded.
Funny, that.
Notwithstanding my frustration with Walsh, after TruthroseGate, I did take notice that she seemed to be making a more concerted effort to acknowledge minorities and acknowledge that we are an integral part of the base. Although she did falter a couple times, by exasperatedly (and patronizingly) making arguments during her appearances on MSNBC that (and I’m paraphrasing) Obama hasn’t done jack and black people should be more critical of him. Of course, she is blind to the overwhelming privilege dripping from such a statement – that she would presume to know what is best for a community of which she is not a part and with which she has expressed little desire to become familiar.
In any event, as far as I saw it, that was the end of it for me. Walsh went about her life and I went about mine. And I figured that was that. Until last night.
Last night… she said 
So last night, I had finally shaken off the stain of the attacks lobbed at me for the prior three days, and I’d walked away from a confrontation with Jilani after giving him a quick piece of my mind. I was done with conflict. Over it.
So you can imagine how infuriated I was to see that Walsh had apparently purposefully picked a fight with Truthrose (she is following her). This woman with a highly trafficked blog dropped a couple of tweets that surely a woman of her intelligence had to know would be infuriating to black folks on Twitter. (Indeed, I think that was the point.)
She was mocking me. That’s how I felt. After four days of being mocked and taunted (I even had to create an Open Thread on Balloon Juice entitled “ABL is a shitty blogger” just to appease the rabid dogs), and a only few hours after Jilani told me that my “racial politics” are “cheap,” Walsh butted into a conversation that did not concern her, for no other reason, apparently, than to throw bombs at me and at black people.
And you know what? I blew up. I did. I called her gross and vile to her core and I said that she was hateful. That was wrong of me. I should not have said that. What I should have said is, what you are doing right now – purposefully taunting black people on Twitter – is gross and vile to its core, and yes, it is hateful. (I wonder whether had I qualified the language that way, it would have made a difference, since it seemed that this line of attack was purposeful and coordinated, but that’s tinfoil hat material for another time.)
If I could go back and rephrase the tweet, I would. But the message would have been some variation of the same because, in my view, Walsh’s attitude toward the black community has not changed one whit, and it is shameful.
She waxes philosophical about how lovely it would be to have a national conversation about race –
Empathy for whom directed at whom? Empathy for you? Why are you deserving of empathy in this conversation when we are the ones being silenced?
–completely blind to the fact that we are already sitting at the table waiting for her and folks like her to join us; to be willing to be extremely uncomfortable for an extended period of time while we talk, and they listen and process.
If any liberals or progressives wants to talk, they need to stop making excuses. Stop sighing that we need a national conversation about race, as if there is some outside force preventing folks from joining the conversation that many of us are having and have been having for years — decades even.
Again, from @vcthree:
If we really want to have a serious conversation about race in this country, I posit that there’s one side that’s been ready to have that debate; it’s another side that continues to create excuses, or try to draw up preconditions for the discussion, or flat-out refuse to sit at the table. It’s a conversation, not a negotiation, and we shouldn’t have to agree to a precondition contract to have the discussion. That’s holding the conversation on your terms; where you feel comfortable with the format, the questions, and essentially, the solution. No, that’s dishonest. If we’re going to have this conversation? Do it honestly.
For the fact of the matter is that we aren’t doing it honestly enough; we aren’t ready to have this conversation now, nor will we be any time soon, until people are willing to sit down, shut up, and listen. And yes, there will be recriminations, anger, fear, shouting, frustrations, and tears. That’s the point; POC’s need people to comprehend that this is not just something we need to simply “get over.” Especially when many of us, in many ways, aren’t getting “over” at all.
I’m not going to sit here and pretend I don’t see color; that I don’t see how my color effects important parts of my identity as a person. I’m tired of being asked to do it, so that they or you don’t have to deal with the issue. You don’t get to dictate terms of race to me. Not when I’ve lived, am living, and live it every day. If that makes you uncomfortable; sit with that for a while. Why does it make you uncomfortable? I can’t answer that for you, and you can’t answer that if you won’t take a moment and reflect upon it. Stop trying to brush off your fraudulent, non-racist credentials—it’s not about where you’re from, or some coincidental connection to Black history; it’s the mindset. It’s understanding the mindset is wrong and needs to be changed. And then changing it. But don’t try to tell me how it is or what it is, when I’ve told you exactly how and what it actually is. Get out of the bubble; start asking questions and taking answers.
If Walsh, as she claimed, wants to have a national conversation on race, why did she throw bombs at black people on Twitter last night? Why? The conversation had nothing to do with her. She stepped in for seemingly no reason at all.
Let me repeat: She stepped in to defend a guy who decided to race-bait me and continued to race-bait @vcthree and others.
Yes, I blew up. Yes I regret the tone, but not the message, and yes, I question the judgment of a person who would “punch down” as they say, the way Walsh did last night.
The Aftermath
This morning, someone sent me this link:
What message are black people to take from this statement? That the upside of a conflict resulting from a group of minorities expressing their displeasure at what they viewed to be needless race-baiting is that she is now reading the writings of the race-baiter? Seriously?!
I hope that was unintentional. I really do. Because if it wasn’t, that’s some ugly business.
Look, I get it. She said some dumb stuff with the seeming intention of provoking a response. I took the bait. Hard. Still, my reaction to what I saw as race-baiting certainly cannot, in her view, be worse than my perception of the race-baiting itself, can it? Is it more important to defend folks who refuse to examine their own privilege, or is she really interested in having that “national conversation about race”? Somehow and sadly, I think it’s the former.
So here’s the deal: I want to apologize for phrasing the “vile and gross” tweet the way I did. I was angry and tired.
I also want to put a stop to whatever narrative that formed and is likely still forming about how crazy and manic and vile that Angry Black Lady is. “So profane. So childish. Not classy. Plus, her name. Why is she so angry?”
Now you know why — it’s the tumor in my mind-head. It affects my emotions at certain times. This weekend, however, was NOT one of those times.
This weekend, I was angry at having been told that I was unimportant, unqualified to speak because I don’t work for a think tank or contribute to a think tank-backed “elite blog”, and therefore hadn’t earned my right to speak. My “outburst” to the extent one wants to call it that, was borne of that anger and borne of irritation at the defensive crouch of many white liberals when the topic of race is broached.
Now, we can go round and round in this cycle of racial animosity, ultimately getting nothing done until we are permanently fractured. Or you can acknowledge the fact that it’s a new dawn in left politics. We can talk to you and try to heal this rift. But what we cannot do is continue to allow those who purport to speak for us in public, to ignore us, and to attack us, and to belittle us for their own gain.
I am asking you (any of you – all of you); if you want to have a conversation about race and racism and what it is like to be a minority, then it’s time to stop saying “race is a difficult subject” or “it’s too hard to talk about.” No, it’s not. Not if you’re serious about listening. It is long past time to put your money where you mouth is, friends.
So, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to light some aromatherapy candles, buy a nice big roundtable, burn some incense, crack open a couple bottles of pinot noir, lay out a cheese plate, and wait for you to join me. We’ll all wear fancy gloves and Sunday hats, and we’ll have a nice civilized conversation. We’ll get it all off our chests while daintily munching on watercress sandwiches with the crusts cut off.
Do you see me? Here I am — sitting at the table quietly, hands crossed demurely in front of me.
Join me, won’t you? I’ll behave.
(And I promise I won’t say the word “fuck” even once.)
1 (I must say, part of me wants to tsk tsk! you for not bothering to read my “Who Am I?” section which explains all of this in grave detail, but hey! You’re busy. I get that.)
Not
Worth
It.
They are just not worth it. You have NOTHING to apologize for, though saying sorry to Joan Walsh is certainly your prerogative.
When I saw it, I didn’t know where the vile/gross comment came from but I also did not know about her baloney bullshit about resenting blacks.
And that’s really the start and finish of it: they resent us, period. They resent that without the coveted “Black vote”, the most sought-after voting bloc in the country, there would be NO so-called “progressive” movement, no Democratic party as it is, no “liberal values”; and the concept of “civil rights” would still be limited to Southern Pacific Railroad and American Telephone and Telegraph company.
Mostly, though, they resent us because we are not afraid of them. That alone causes great distress and severe congnitive dissonance in people who have been told that they are the world’s natural rulers.
Now, we can again predict what will happen in this thread. A bunch of clue-frees will write in, writhing in some form of self-indulgence, be it in the form of guilt laden race-confessionals, or sharing/caring hour on every vile, filthy, loathsome anti-minority thought they still retain.
There will be the inevitable, odd demands for two-way “conversation” which is just shorthand for “why aren’t you validating me and my attempts to talk about this!” or, “why aren’t you letting me take out my anti-Black aggressions all over your posts!”
There will be angry, red-faced, hot-eared assertions — really forms of “you deserve/want it” — that your personal “attitude” prompts the treatment by BJ and Jilani, and that Joan Walsh really is right.
For we cynical, dismissive types, we’ll be the red herring utilized to cling to the same old stereotypes people would still hold, even if they never read a post of mine in their lives.
There will be, as there has already been in other threads, the tacit suggestion that merely “trying” is enough.
I still have a question: given that we can predict the behavior and already know what’s coming, why in the world should we attempt the same so-called “conversations”, yet expect a different result?
I’ll supply cucumber sandwiches along with the watercress as well as scones and clotted cream. Sound good?
AngryBlackLady,
Thank you for sharing WHY you erupted yesterday. I had come to Balloon Juice months ago to read you and then you did a GBCW and then I left. Never going back.
You ROCK and I have missed you!
ABL, I’ll bring the tea–not Lipton–but I can’t promise I won’t say ‘fuck’.
Some of these “progressives” really don’t know when to shut up. Walsh really seems to be way too impressed with herself.
What I appreciate most about this post: Being able to walk through last night through your eyes. I read that chirpstory three different times and all I was able to pull away from it was the idea that things were being hurled that shouldn’t come from ‘our side’ (I use that term with quotes because appearances aren’t always truth).
To OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin’s question here:
I still have a question: given that we can predict the behavior and already know what’s coming, why in the world should we attempt the same conversations, yet expect a different result?
My answer: Because sometimes people don’t participate in the conversation but still take away a greater understanding. If you buy the idea that 85% of readers never comment or come out of lurk mode, then the conversation isn’t only for those involved in speaking, but also for those who are not speaking.
I don’t have any great answers for how to overcome this. To me, race, racism, and race issues should not be a zero-sum game. By that I mean that the first tweet that kicked off this latest round which accused you of “playing of cheap racial politics while ignoring brown people getting blown up” suggests that one cannot (or should not) be concerned with the daily, more mundane racial issues. Those should be overlooked in favor of the more lofty, public, gory ones. And not only that, but it marginalized those concerns and made it a black-on-brown competition to see who suffers more. That was an ongoing theme through that entire series of tweets.
Perhaps it’s worth acknowledging that whether it’s a comment on a blog post, a tweet, or some other form of psychological or physical violence directed at a group of people based on the color of their skin, it’s not right. As to the claim that being liberal means not being racist, I would laugh if it weren’t so utterly sad.
Framing it as zero-sum leaves no room for a different outcome. Someone has to be the loser and someone has to be the winner. Of everything, this is what I don’t understand the most. Surely there must be a win-win solution out there for everyone? Does it REALLY cost me anything to shut up and listen and admit that I cannot possibly have an opinion about what it feels like to be marginalized at every turn? Not so much. In fact, I’d argue that by admitting that, we at least have some basis for moving forward that isn’t set up for a winner and a loser.
We live in a world that craves outcomes in conflict, where the perception of a balanced outcome necessarily means one loses and one wins. I don’t accept that. I don’t believe it has to be that way, but it seems that some do. How to change that perception? How to look in the eyes of someone who believes that and tell them they aren’t losers for allowing room for others to be heard?
Smarter people than me may have to answer that. I’ll just keep listening.
My answer: Because sometimes people don’t participate in the conversation but still take away a greater understanding. If you buy the idea that 85% of readers never comment or come out of lurk mode, then the conversation isn’t only for those involved in speaking, but also for those who are not speaking.
I don’t have any great answers for how to overcome this. To me, race, racism, and race issues should not be a zero-sum game. By that I mean that the first tweet that kicked off this latest round which accused you of “playing of cheap racial politics while ignoring brown people getting blown up” suggests that one cannot (or should not) be concerned with the daily, more mundane racial issues. Those should be overlooked in favor of the more lofty, public, gory ones. And not only that, but it marginalized those concerns and made it a black-on-brown competition to see who suffers more. That was an ongoing theme through that entire series of tweets.
That guy accused ABL of that not me, but you’re right about the zero sum game.
Many here may disagree with me, but I believe “shut up and listen” is another form of a zero sum game. I do know why it’s posed as some kind of compromise in these attempts to have these go-nowhere race conversations, though. A lot of it just boils down to plain old laziness.
My preferred way — everyone participates, everyone who wants to talks, and most importantly everyone knows what the eff they are talking about because each is in the process of doing our own self-education — is apparently too pie-in-the-sky. Requiring adults and peers to act like adults and peers on the topic of stupid “race”, you might as well be asking for rainbow-breathing unicorns dropped in your lap by the Blessed Virgin Mary herself. What typically results is the square one of the nonwhites being put in this pseudo-educational role, which really turns into little more than a game show style performance for the entertainment of those of the majority intent on clinging to their cluelessness, and unearned privileges.
Why in blazes must we educate our peers in order to have an informed conversation, many of whom have equal access to low-cost education, internet materials, and free libraries as anyone else? <–rhetorical question
Let them go educate themselves, THEN try and have a conversation. This is just basic communications common sense.
Now, that's a personal preference based on 20-something years as a Black person on the so-called left, from back when “progressive” meant left-of-left, and not simply someone running away from the word “liberal”. So the question about attempting the same thing over and over and expecting different results isn’t just banter, I mean it: it’s the definition of insanity. Others have their own views.
Hey, his sounded so much like the zillions of fights I’ve has with my daughter. With us it’s not race – it’s feminism. She is always accusing me of selling out women because I am patient & I’m in a life long battle. I started working when you could get fired for wearing pants. I accuse her of demanding too much. I say that for the women who need Fed gov’t funded abortion she’s willing to sacrifice the health of millions.
I hate arguing with her. I want the same things she does but I’ve been there when we lost it all because we let our reach exceed our grasp. And she thinks that because I’m not screaming I don’t care. Then comes the name calling. She calls me a rape apologist and I call her a feminazi. Then the only winners are the misogynists.
A Republican Friend once told me – “Choose your battles wisely” At the time I was a Rebel without a Clue. I was suffering from battle fatigue. I took that advice. I’ve learned that some battles are not worth what they cost to wage. Some you have to fight no matter what the cost. The key to making a more perfect union is knowing when to hold your fire and knowing when to send in the Seal Team.
I confess I didn’t read the whole battle story. No win arguments remind me of the time I dug a hole in the asphalt driveway trying to get out of a snow bank. Shoulda just called Triple A. I sent Joan a nasty email once. She replied. She heard me. And I heard her.
I love your writing.
The thing is why does she keep doing it? Getting into these sorts of tussles. That last comment about trying to find this guy’s writings really gets me. What did he say that was so profound that he needed to be researched? A star is born? It’s times like this that I ask myself why I have spent over twenty years, since Jesse Jackson in ’88, on the “progressive Left”. It’s starting to get a bit ridiculous. Cut it out guys! You’re not that special. By the way; love that song! Great way to end “Fight Club”.
Jaw/Floor. God help the ‘brown people’ this Think Progress guy thinks he’s ‘helping’.
I wonder if either could be shamed into admitting that they didn’t read it (which is super obvie) even AFTER they’d been alerted to the fact that there was more than a title?
That would HAVE to give one pause, no? “Why did you think you knew what it said?” “Do you like it when people criticize your work without reading it?”
“What’s different here?” That moment of panic and weightlessness like when Mom asked just the right trap question to reveal The Lie. Can that part of the body/soul get broken?
ABL- I hope your pinot is fanfuckingtastic. In a bullshit storm like this, it’s optimistic indeed to go with such a fickle grape.
Oh shit! I stepped in it again. I read Crush on Sarah Palin & some others. I hate this aspect of the blogs – it’s like high school clique & I’m still the earnest, naive, nerdy girl.
If you think we’re not doing enough, then HOW DO WE DO MORE?
If I close my eyes – The disparaging words fashioned for white people are no different than those still used in kitchens in the south to speak about black and brown people. There is not one damn bit of difference between them. It is the ‘us and them’ way of seeing things. It’s let’s you & him fight. It is how they keep us poor.
You have to decide if you want to win the argument or solve the problem. You can’t do both.
Oh The daughter, finally got a job. Someone is paying her to use her blog to bash Obama. Cash for comments. The more shit she stirs – the more ka-ching Ca$h.
I hope she’s bashing him from the Right because that is something I could understand. This bashing from the Left perplexes my aging brain to no end.
Just a reminder: the bashing in question is ABL’s treatment by the blowhole commenters at BJ and by that guy at ThinkProgress. Joan Walsh’s race-troubles with Black voters who consider ourselves to be part of Obama’s “base” is also at issue. The whole post is how those things affected ABL.
Criticizing them and those who tacitly or overtly agree with them is not “bashing”. People should not be so oversensitive.
She hates Obama so much – she’d do it for free. She thinks it’s left. But her talking points sound like Frank Luntz wrote them.
I smell the typical Republican ratfuck here.
There are differences between the words. Whites aren’t faced with systemic hatred. Whites aren’t faced with those kinds of words every day of our lives. Whites are responsible for the rage that brings those words to life.
You cannot judge those words with your eyes closed to source and cause. That is part of the problem. You cannot assume the field is equal because it is not.
(Edited to fix a verb in the first paragraph.)
I can’t even read the BJ comments anymore. Dennis G posted about Newt pandering to racists, and said — “What might help is catering to White anxiety and fear over a changing world—this is especially true for white males.” The second comment on the post was “Between you and ABL, I’m getting really sick of this shit.”
And then fools proceeded to have an attack of the vapors about Dennis’s use of “white males” instead of “some white males.” within two fucking comments, the post became all about white people and their hurt feelings, and then dissolved into yet another discussion about how the picture that I posted mocking the redneck was racist and I was so wrong for posting it, and isn’t anti-white racism just as bad.
I about lost my goddamn lunch.
Every time I make a complaint about “white people,” someone on Twitter always replies “we’re not all like that.” NO SHIT. Why is the first response always an attempt to separate oneself from the “true racists.” Just STFU. You think I think all white people are assholes? Christ on a pogo stick. I’m tired of qualifying my language every time I say something because some well-intentioned white person might be offended.
within two fucking comments, the post became all about white people and their hurt feelings
Doesn’t it always.
I’m white and I never get offended by you. You speak the truth. There are a lot assholes on that blog. I don’t know what’s happened over there. Some weird shit.
some days your writing brings me to tears. this is one of them.
take care, stay strong, and take a break in canada!
c
If you think we’re not doing enough, then HOW DO WE DO MORE?
I guess this was meant for me. “We” who? “we” can mean anything. I did not mention “whites” in my post, but if “whites” are what you mean, I don’t accept the underlying premise at all.
So-called “whites” trying to undo their own privilege are doing me no favors, so let’s not pretend I’m the judge of how whites should be dismantling the racial mess their ancestors set up for them.
Dunno, one measure of how effective “whites” are in that effort, though, could be that we don’t have to have these idiotic “conversations on race” anymore.
By “we” I meant all of us that want a world free of racism and injustice.
What do we do next”? If yhis isn’t working – how do we fix it? Bitchin about ain’t workin.
“Mostly, though, they resent us because we are not afraid of them. That alone causes great distress and severe congnitive dissonance in people who have been told that they are the world’s natural rulers.”
I think I’m who you think you’re talking about here. But NOBODY ever told me that! In fact they taught me, “You work for everything you get cause nobody gives a shit about you”. Poor is the same damn color everywhere.
Now what would you call me if I made a comment like that about African-Americans?
“Mostly, though, they resent us because we are not afraid of them. That alone causes great distress and severe congnitive dissonance in people who have been told that they are the world’s natural rulers.”
I think I’m who you think you’re talking about here.
And you base your perceptions on what, exactly?
If the description of the Joan Walshes of the world don’t apply to YOU then there is no reason to be offended by it.
Exactly as I predicted…Anything to avoid dealing with the issue at hand, which is ABL’s treatment in the past 5 days by supposed “progressives”.
Now what would you call me if I made a comment like that about African-Americans?
False equivalence. ABL is the wounded party here, and yes those kinds of comments and worse have been said about her.
ROFLMAO My God – really? “Criticizing them and those who tacitly or overtly agree with them is not “bashing”. People should not be so oversensitive.”
But criticizing someone you agree with is bashing?
I go away now. I should never swim in the deep end anyway.
ROFLMAO My God – really? “Criticizing them and those who tacitly or overtly agree with them is not “bashing”. People should not be so oversensitive.”
But criticizing someone you agree with is bashing?
I had to read the exchange a few times to realize Len Sam was talking about Joan Walsh bashing from the right. The way it was written, it looked like he/she was responding to your post about me bashing from the right.
So, scratch that comment.
In reading over this twitter flareup, the Jilani chirpstory, and ABL’s stream in general, doing the homework as she puts it. I saw a lot of very good arguments and a lot of very fair points raised by ABL and others. These points have previously been spoken better than I can by Duncan Donitz and others, but I also noticed, and feel I’d be in remiss not to point out, one problem. The privilege argument seems to be turning into a script, and let me underline that when I say that I’m referring to the computer kind rather than an acting or stage script. It seems that ABL and a couple others, I recall vcthree also doing this re: Jilani, have developed a tendency to reflexively run privilege.scr when they think someone is being an ass.
Attributing the flawed arguments of a brown-skinned Middle-Eastern guy named Zaid to privilege seems reflexive at best, and to be a minimization of his experiences in that wonderful thing we call post 9-11 America at worst. Throwing the same accusations at a black man (lawscribe) is nothing if not the definition of knee-jerk. Something to think about.
Yes, this, a million times. The notion that someone named “Zaid Jilani” was speaking from a position of white privilege is more than a little outlandish in post 9/11 America. I didn’t know lawscribe was black, but that’s equally as outlandish.
Okay, perhaps he was speaking from wannabe-white privilege, how’s that. Is that better? Does it meet your approval?
Like I said below, I think that’s just as insulting as white liberals telling folks what they should and shouldn’t consider racist; it discounts their experiences and voice.
If either of them had attempted to have a conversation with me about their experiences and their feelings of being silenced, I would have happily listened. Neither extended me the same courtesy. To expect me to feel sorry for a person of ME descent who right out of the gate calls my writing “cheap racial politics” is asinine.
I don’t care about his voice because he doesn’t care about mine. He seems content to be Greenwald’s lackey. That is his choice.
Trust, I don’t give a crap about what Cornel West or Tavis Smiley say either.
Like I suggested in another thread, we can count on the “experience and voice” of anti-Black resentment to be coddled and made into false equivalence, as if it’s legitimate.
Our feelings, ABLs feelings are NEVER protected by our supposed allies on the left. Never. And when expressed, we can expect all manner of people to come out of the woodwork to wag their fingers about “two way streets” in these so-called conversations.
Screw the term “white privilege”, it’s anti-Black privilege and I don’t give a rat’s rear the color of the person doing it. Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, and Jesse Lee Peterson have banked their careers on it, so please don’t trot out Zaid’s skin color as an excuse. It’s tokenistic behavior.
Similarly, in a society rigged against minorities, a white or otherwise privileged person (even a privileged minority) calling minority concerns “cheap racial politics” is beyond the pale.
You need to read more carefully before you comment.
To techoid: This comment’s assumption is that people of color cannot have internalized white privilege and supremacy, and there are no people of color who bend over backwards to seek approval from white folks and protect white folks who are speaking from privilege from the diry hordes of people of color who are too inferior to know that we must never address Miss Anne out of turn. In other words, what a stupid comment and a 100% example of what abl was talking about in terms of people of ZERO intellectual sophistication with regards to race matters having the f-ing audacity to try to school others who have developed said sophistication as a matter of survival.
Go sit down.
Well, he did get one thing right, though that’s by mistake: the privilege thing is indeed a script
Of course it wasn’t Black folk who scripted that browns be backed into lose-lose corners that had them trying to prove their whiteness, like Mr. Thind, or the Mendezes.
But in parroting the same old self-loathing baloney, Zaid himself reveals the script: just SHUT UP, be a nice colored person. Don’t be perceived as standing up for your interests or things that affect you. Maybe then the same people who hate you and roll up the windows when they see you coming might be nice to you, someday…
lol, exactly. That’s why I love to interact with REAL liberals. There’s so much less of this racial self-consciousness.
I’ve got just the thing to cheer everybody up!
http://youtu.be/hyoYwyw35QI
Nailed it.
In her dealings with both Truthrose and me, Joan made some snide reference about our language.
As if I would have removed the word “fuck” from any of my posts, she would have perked up and listened.
She had over a month to demonstrate that she gives a shit. She doesn’t. I had no intention of spending nearly 12 hours writing and crying while writing this post, until I heard that the narrative being pushed was that I’m manic, crazy, emotional, unstable, drunk, whatever. Anything to attack the messenger when you don’t want to hear the message.
I had several white folks telling me to tone it down, give her an opportunity to come out of her defensive corner. “You sound crazy.” “Your stream is frenetic.” “You are bipolar.”
Dude, really? You try living for 37 years the way I have (which is not nearly as rough as some people have it — yes, I’m privileged too) and then come talk to me about how I should tone down my language or anger.
Why are we always supposed to make it comfortable for white people to get the fuck over their shit?
“Oh, she said a bad word! I’m not gonna listen anymore.”
/eyeroll
“This comment’s assumption is that people of color cannot have internalized white privilege and supremacy, and there are no people of color who bend over backwards to seek approval from white folks and protect white folks who are speaking from privilege from the diry hordes of people of color who are too inferior to know that we must never address Miss Anne out of turn.”
You know, for folks who talk a big game about respecting POCs’ lived experiences and listening to their voices without prejudice, this false-consciousness, “serving the white master” shit really rankles.
Zaid is a POC. Lawscribe is too. Their opinions are just as authentic as yours, and it’s an insult to assume that there’s some kind of false consciousness pulling the strings.
You must think this is dkos or something wherein someone white can and will proceed to lecture me on what *I* in my freaking *opinion* can and cannot consider racist behavior on the part of someone white, someone black, or the motherfucking man in the moon. Again I say go sit down. This is a grown folks discussion.
I think you’d be insulted if someone assumed your beliefs and opinions were not the result of your thoughts and experiences, but rather some kind of false consciousness.
Whatever, this discussion is clearly going nowhere.
Whatever, this discussion is clearly going nowhere.
In other words, you’re unable to dictate or otherwise control the terms of this so-called “discussion”.
Thanks for highlighting why these “conversations on race” end up a pointless waste of time.
sit down.
indeed.
ABL: Love you, love your blog, but this is bullshit. Noone, NOONE, should feel like they have the right to delegitimize another’s perspective. This isn’t even about race, this is about simple humanity. And I understand your perspective has been delegitimized too and that hurts and it sucks, but to accuse anyone of only having their opinions to suck up to the powers that be is just not cool. Noone gets to decide what it means to be black/brown/white/asian but the person living in that skin. Not you, not Ohshitihaveacrushonsarahpalin, not me, not every white person in the world or every black person in the world. You know, I’m far from being a Republican, and disagree with Bush policies all the way, but I will go to the fucking wall to defend condo fuckin leeza Rice’s right to be who she is with the beliefs she holds to. And if anyone wants to try and decide what my little girls feelings should be, or how shes supposed t relate to the world around her based on the color of her skin I will rip their fucking heads off.
Yeah, you were being racebaited by Jilani, I get that. His anger was misdirected. Does that mean his anger wasn’t righteous on some level? Or that it was only the product of him as some priveleged snot sticking up for Glenn Greenwald (who I can’t stand either, for the reocrd)? I don’t think thats a fair assumption. If my people were getting bombed left and right and dismissed as unfortunate collateral damage, and i felt this dismissal was somewhat racially motivated, would I be pissed if this was ignored in the context of the struggle for racial equality too? damn straight. Again, his anger at you was misdirected and ill advised, but does that delegitimize his perspective?
The opposite of racism is the acknowledgement and understanding that every unique individual has their own unique story and history and perspective which is THEIRS and THEIRS alone, and that noone, of any race or creed or background has the right to shit on. And anytime someone does that, for whatever reason, its the job of everyone who understands that truth to remind them of that.
Again, love you, love your blog, and I am not trying to say you shouldn’t be angry, because you have every right to be, and thats the point. So does Zaid Jilani. Fuck so does Joan fucking Walsh who I’m pretty sure didn’t intend her lame brained comment about her birthday and the king speech to open up a whole can of worms. And I’m not saying don’t be angered by her cluelessness either, I’m just saying that from her perspective “it was meant as an innocent comment and why is everybody jumping down my throat over nothing and calling me this awful thing that I never ever wanted to be?”
And yeah, its complicated and messy and tangled and even the best courses on the black/latino/asian/gay/female experience can only begin to prepare you for the emotional onslaught of dealing with all these different perspectives and feelings by providing some potential historical basis, which may or may not be relevant to the actual squirming crying human being you are confronted with. That’s life. Complicated. But true healing, racial, sexual, or just plain human only happens one individual to another, one at a time. It can’t be mass produced or reduced to some simple formula. It is what it is.
False equivalence, as predicted. Try turning some of that individualistic, atomized tough love on the Walshes and Zaids of the world.
Well, if i was at salon or wherever the fuck Jilani writes, i would. But I’m not. I’m here. Because i like it here. And I get what your saying about false equivalency…as I wrote in Asiangrrls post, saying something racially insensitive to a POC is not equivalent to a POC person making some negative generalization about white people, even though they seem equivalent in that limited context, because the comment to the POC reflects and reminds them of the racist social milieu in which they exist, whereas to the white person its simply hurt feelings. Absolutely. Doesn’t change the fact that they, as an individual, have a right to their hurt feelings and a right to any anger as a result. It also doesn’t change the fact that the impetus to claim only one true and legitimate perspective on any issue outside the realm of hard science and math is destructive, no matter how noble or well intentioned that impetus might be, the codification of that perspective ultimately only serves to delegitimize any who fail to share it.
ABL, thank you so much for taking the time to put this down.
It’s important, and I hope people get to see that this was more than just another night at Twitter Fight Club. I don’t dislike Joan Walsh, I think she’s a great voice for certain progressive causes, but she doesn’t get a pass on this just because she’s on the left. I wish she would concede that flying a progressive flag doesn’t make her an expert on things she couldn’t possibly know. I wish Joan would show some humility, and understand that because she uses her platform to speak on behalf of minorities, she has an even greater obligation to make sure she’s listening to those for whom she claims to speak.
Personally, I am grateful that you’re so willing to have the conversation. I’m grateful you’re so open, honest, and inviting. I’m grateful, that even after all this ugliness, you’re *still* at the table.
You are bah-rilliant.
I don’t agree with half of what you write, or even a quarter of your agenda, but I do believe you are a wonderful daughter of America with a great gift and a greater heart. Consequently, while I may not always embrace your arguments, I always read them with interest and an open mind. Why? Because you possess a restless and seeking honesty. In other words, your positions may seem flawed to me, but your writing is true. There really is nothing more we can rightfully ask of another human being.
Hang in there, ABL. You do good work.
ABL,
Wow. I’m a regular lurker at BJ and read some of the Wrangle. I’ll have to admit that I thought, “Why is she letting a few assholes get to her?”
I really had no idea how long and deep this battle was going on! Jeebus!
Jilani is a real douche and I certainly expected more from Walsh.
I’m borderline Socialist but I’ve run into people like this before. Liberal Jihadi’s. You’re never devoted enough, unless you throw yourself on the sword for every injustice in the world, but it’s got to be the right injustice to rail about in the right way or your just part of the problem.
Fuck. who can live like that?
I appreciate your passion and desire to educate. I’m sorry you had to go through that BS. I watched E.D. Kain go through a similar experience. He’s a Libertarian who was experiencing some enlightenment and change to a more liberal sentiment. Instead of nurturing his transformation, he got savaged at BJ.
I still like BJ because I appreciate John’s move leftward and really the quality of writing, but fuck it pisses me off to see good people run off by a few assholes.
I’m a bigger fan now that I was before. Thanks for what you’ve done for me.
Your friend,
Tim
I haven’t been able to pay close attention to all this because various offline things, but what little I’ve been able to follow definitely had you with all my sympathy, ABL. Joan Walsh has always seemed like a fair-weather librul, just waiting for her chance to switch teams and get a Fox News paycheck, and after seeing Jilani’s initial Twitter post that started this all off, I’m really shocked that it was so intensely offensive.
You’ll always be on my Awesome People list, ABL.
One thing I keep coming back to (well, two things) is how exhausting this must be — this constant explaining of oneself and one’s reality — and how much energy is spent on those explanations. How much energy could be put in other directions, if this conversation didn’t have to be held over and over and over again.
Thanks for all of this, and keep on, my friend. It gets ugly because it’s really, really important, I think. Thank you for continuing to fight through the ugly.
ABL, I’m not sure I can have much to say on all this at all, for two reasons. First, I’m a middle-aged white guy. Second, I’m not even on Twitter, nor do I frequent Balloon Juice (hell, I don’t even occasional the place!) – I tried it and found it not to my liking.
There is a thing I said, though, in AsiangrrlMN’s comment thread that I’ll repeat here. I know heartfelt truth when I see it.
Thanks. On my way now. Keep up the good work and good fight.
Ugh. Just — ugh. Smarter people will have more useful things to say — but picking up on one detail: So Joan is thrilled to have discovered the writings of a guy who doesn’t read a blog post thoroughly before shooting off his mouth? They sound like soulmates to me!
And yes, she still owes an apology to Ishmael Reed for lying about what he wrote in the Times And to Truthrose, and ABL, and a whole lot of other people. She should do that first, and then apologize for running craptastic demagogic crap from the likes of Sirota and Glennwald. There’s a reason I took Salon out of my bookmarks a long time ago.
And there’s a reason that this blog is one of my must-reads. Thank you for putting all this out there. I’m just sorry the circumstances made it necessary for you to do so.
Since PBO passed HCR, I’ve noticed that the netroots is becoming more and more racially aggressive towards President Obama and his supporters. All the while playing the victim. As much as is possible, I just want everyone to remember the snake-belly-low characters that we’re dealing with. These people in the netroots and their whiny, passive aggressive sites aren’t exactly studies in intellectual integrity…
They didn’t get everything they wanted so they’ll whine until the end of time. Fuck ‘em till the end of time!
{{{{{Hugs}}}}} ABL
I am just gobsmacked at the above exchange to say the least. Screeds from “liberals” like Walsh, Greenwald, Hamsher, Moulitsas, etc. is the reason why the Democratic Party will see the back of me forevuh when President Obama finishes his second term (and he will get a second term, make no mistake). This type of condescension and racism I totally expect from the right wing, but to have to put up with it from liberals who should know better? No fucking way! And while this is just one Black woman speaking for herself, if anyone takes time to check out the Black blosgopshere this POV is far from unique. If the President of the United States has to be subjected to the degree of disrespect from his so-called allies (how many times has his Democratic colleagues in Congress left him hanging on stuff? Gunatanamo, tax cuts, I could go on…), what chance does the average Black constituent have?
I’ve seen more than enough nonsense these last 2 years and I am done. Period.
Keep your head up ABL, you’re doing good.
The netroots cannot and should not be mistaken for the Democratic party and its supporters. Markos has a space which is like 97% white. Walsh is a passive aggressive whiny pretend-victim and clown. GG is a performance artist who sells phony torture claims and some bs libertarian crap which he merchandises as “principle” to insecure people who need to feel better than somebody on the freaking Internet.
These idiots give Dems a really bad name; they are MEDIA WHORES. They are not to be mistaken for all Dems, and if elected Dems had even a freaking smidgeon of sense, they’d stand up and say so.
Well, you do bring up a point.
Who in the D party DOES listen to them? The Obama admin certainly doesn’t, which of course is their main cause for cognitive dissonance — PBO doesn’t need them, and neither does anyone, really.
I think that some elected Dems do listen to them. And they definitely get a bunch of their narratives into the national media, which is its own problem. But to me, these are nothing but a bunch of self-important buffoons. Half of these guys and gals aren’t even that intelligent. They just use a combination of “screaming louder” and playing the victim to manipulate conversations and have outsized influence.
If people take these folks to represent Dems and/or liberals, it would be downright depressing. Thank God/the Gods/flying spaghetti monster that they represent nothing but a bunch of spoiled, petulant elitists (have you ever heard of a *blog* prima donna? they are truly f-ing ridiculous). Anyone who doubts what I say, go to a single OFA meeting and talk with some real liberals. Go to a single local Dem meeting and talk with the real Dem base.
That’s why they’re so jealous of OFA and always putting them down; OFA is authentic and the netroots is not IMO.
If the President of the United States has to be subjected to the degree of disrespect from his so-called allies (how many times has his Democratic colleagues in Congress left him hanging on stuff? Gunatanamo, tax cuts, I could go on…), what chance does the average Black constituent have?
Srsly. The only decent thing to come out of it is that now at least there is an incontrovertible referent for when we talk about what happens to the rest of us.
One thing I have noticed is, the people who grandstand about “getting it” are the first to perpetuate the b.s. All this was going on just as Ms. Walsh published a halfway decent piece on Gingrich’s latest anti-Black dogwhistles.
What makes crap like this exponentially annoying is, you know they are only repeating what they have siphoned off the comments of BLK blogs, pretending the ideas are their own. It all ends up being just talk and self-serving blather. Cultural plagiarism is not new among these types.
Hang in there ABL, you are fighting the good fight with openness and in a non judgmental way, even when confronted with entitled liberal brats who think they know all about racism due to being liberals or faux progressives, or something special, where some pointed judging might actually be warrented.
And take care of yourself, as things will not change over night, and your personal health and well being is the most important thing. Fight them on your terms, when you wish, in the manner you wish. Some of us whites get what you are saying, at least as much as our entitled upbringing will permit.
It is kind of sadly amusing, judging from the over wrought responses, especially at Balloon Juice, to what amounts to requests to simply think about the terms and words liberals use to steer clear of age old white stereotypes concerning black people, you would think you have declared some kind of race war on them to get whitey.
oh, and Greenwald and company can go to hell. I have more respect for the wingnuts than those prissy shitasses.
I only read BJ for you. They are being crossed off my daily reading list. Keep your head up and keep speaking as you speak for many of us that are not so eloquently gifted.
Holy shit. ABL, my personal situation (I tweeted you about) means it’s been hard for me to keep current–in fact, I only had time to lightly skim through this post–and I can’t believe you’ve had THIS, on top of all the other shit you’ve gone through recently. I’m so, so sorry, sweetheart. I can’t comment at length right now, but I just wanted to give a BIG virtual hug.
((((((((((abl))))))))))
The netroots is a smoldering ruin consisting of an echochamber of self-important buffoons who periodically take two seconds from smugly waxing poetic about their greatness to pat President Obama and his supporters on the head or wag their fingers at us.
These. people. are. asshats. Almost all are passive aggressive. Some are outright sociopaths. All are enough to make you lose your faith in humanity if you begin to imagine that the netroots=real life.
Do not EVER forget the fact that the netroots is pure asshattery when engaging them, and do not EVER feel too bad about cussing one of them out as the mood suits, and do not EVER take their passive aggressive whining and playing the victim seriously. F- Joan Walsh, she means nothing to me as a black woman; what she eats doesn’t make you shit; f- her.
(I know I’m not helping)
That said, take a deep deep breath. You’re doing just fine!
“The netroots is a smoldering ruin consisting of an echochamber of self-important buffoons who periodically take two seconds from smugly waxing poetic about their greatness to pat President Obama and his supporters on the head or wag their fingers at us.
These. people. are. asshats. Almost all are passive aggressive. Some are outright sociopaths. All are enough to make you lose your faith in humanity if you begin to imagine that the netroots=real life.”
Agreed. It’s the same for politics, movies, music…most of these spewheads (as my niece calls them) are all about self-puffery and dropping verbal nonsense and bull-pucky, never admitting that they are wrong, and believing that they are absolutely goshdarned right, and the rest of us are just minor ants to be crushed underfoot.
I stayed out of the whole fracas at BJ when I saw the direction it was heading in, but that didn’t stop my own blood from boiling. That’s one thing I do not like about the ‘Net–these jerks are behind the screen, in pixels, able to spout out any nonsense they want and get away with it…and you’re unable to reach through the monitor, unscrew their heads against the threads, and puke down their necks.
The only thing you can do is just not let them get to you, and know that THEY are the small fry, the minority.
I completely agree, Marc. Offline, never have I met white liberals who are quite this obsessed with controlling what black folks do and don’t consider racist, controlling allowable *opinions* in this regard, or who have problems grasping simple, basic concepts such as the reality of internalized racism and racism between groups of color. It’s 2011; “you’re playing the race card!” is played out and there is nothing novel, insightful, or even interesting about the various permutations of that tired old canard. Anyone becoming upset and perhaps looking for an antidote to the excesses of the netroots: I couldn’t suggest more strongly that people hop into a local Dem or OFA meeting. The netroots has simply become the same DC bubble, a mini Village, and is just as out of touch with day to day people IMO.
Meet the new boss same as the old. I once had great hopes for this technology creating a more unified progressive community. Guess I was wrong.
Don’t give up hope, Len. I think we’ll still get there, just not in the way that at least I personally expected. But if you glance at the comments sections of spaces such as thepeoplesview and blackwaterdog.wordpress.com, you’ll see communities which are actually diverse and while not walking in opinion lockstep, don’t have this group of elitists who commandeer so much attention and/or are building media careers via shock jocking. We just need to continue to decentralize the netroots and this time, I hope that the emerging pragmatic progressive new media editors put some controls into place which discourage selfish behavior and infiltration by right wingers who are looking to make mischief.
Keep hope alive lol!
I haven’t had time to read all the comments of the past several days but I read and appreciated this post as well as asiangrrlMN’s aforementioned post. You have my full support! I am one of those white liberals, I guess, and I aspire to be in the better 90%. I love the way you write ABL. Thank you for keeping at it.
So this is what a comments thread looks like when any dissenting voices are banned … seems kinda boring, but each to her own I guess. *ahem* I mean, I love you and your writing ABL, you are the best, keep doing what you do!!
I think the homogeneity of opinion in this thread has more to do with the reflexively ignorant mugging of the tweets. Hard to be on that side, unless you are in a safe cocoon of back-patters.
No banning of opinion here… though people (esp. oCrap- if I may say) do tend to bring Light with fission rather than matches. But if there are folks who can’t stand the heat, that’s not the same as being excluded.
please stand strong, ABL.
I try and be as pleasant as possible, but I’m at the point where now, my advice to you is to tell them to go FUCK THEMSELVES.
I am tired as a muthafucka being told by White folks that I’m ‘ too sensitive’ about race.
What the fuck is ‘ too sensitive’ about race?
from where I sit, and what I’ve read of your post, all I see from you is that you’re a thinking Black woman, proud, who speaks her mind, and is honest.
yet, for many White folks, that makes one ‘ too sensitive’ on the topic of race.
I’ll say it again.
fuck you.
This isn’t 40 years ago where my relatives had to be worried about being strung up in the street for speaking our mind.
WE’ZE FREE now, and we don’t need White folks’ permission on when something is or is not ‘racial’.
we’re so beyond that.
putting on the Afro Wig and pulling up the fist in solidarity with you, ABL.
and, for those of you who consider ABL to be ‘ too sensitive’, then take your asses elsewhere, where the echo chamber for you will tell you that you are just so WHITE, oh, sorry, right, about ‘ those Black people, who are ‘ too sensitive”.
Dear ABL: You are good. True story.
I was crying along with you on Sunday, ABL. I was more than a little stunned by the obtuseness of Said and Joan.
But I do want to add a few comments as someone who watched the fight in real time.
1) I’m pretty sure that Walsh had the wrong end of the stick on this from the beginning. Twitter is a frustrating medium in which to get the full flavor of where someone is at. But it appeared to me from some of her later posts that she got it in her head that you and Said were fighting because you believe that Obama cannot be criticized from the left. Where that came from, I’m not sure. It may be because she’s already mentally categorized you as an Obamabot so that’s the only thing she expects from you.
2) I’m also pretty sure that Said’s initial comments to you (referring to brown people being blown up) was a reference to some skirmishes happening with Israel and either Palestinians or Egyptians (or both, there was a lot of info flying around my tweet stream at the time, I never got the whole story). So while it does not exonerate his “cheap racial” comment or his dismissing of asiangirl’s post, I think (hope, suspect) that he was trying to call attention to what was happening *right now* instead of a centuries long issue.
3) I totally got and backed you with your anger, as well as vcthree’s. And I don’t believe you need to apologize for lacking the qualifiers. But I will suggest that some of your supporters may have gotten a little too vehement and crossed the line. At the point when someone tells Joan Walsh they’ll make sure she’ll never be on TV again, it’s pretty clear that nothing else said will reach her, because the threat has just shut her down. It may be satisfying, but it’s counterproductive if getting her to understand what’s going on is the goal. In general, threats aren’t a good method of persuasion.
4) Joan was absolutely tweaking you with that Monday post. I saw that and my respect for her dropped several notches.
5) I’m not sure how Glennzilla insinuated himself into this, but frankly, I really wish that it would stop. He wasn’t part of this. *YOUR* identity was attacked, but his *ego* got stroked again. Really, the blogosphere needs to do a whole lot less of that.
But I have your back, girl. You have opened my eyes to the insidiousness of liberal racism and I won’t be silent about it any more.
@rikyrah
It’s more like, if you dish it out you should be able to take it in the same measure.
ABL:
Don’t let the bastards get you down.
Steady as she goes.
The site’s scripts for responding directly to comments don’t seem to be cooperating, so it looks like this is going to post unthreaded.
—
to gn:
ABL was shooting from the hip to the point she explicitly called lawscribe white, and you can see in her timeline that she was pissed enough that she only later realized she attributed someone else’s tweet to him. Maybe it’s ok to admit just a tiny bit of fault when mistakes are in fact made, such as assuming that a light-skinned black man photographed in poor lighting is white. Is that really that unreasonable?
Seems to be a bit of all or nothing thinking going on here. A comment that is mainly praise is “stupid” because I also pointed out one specific thing that bothered me, and I should go “sit down” based on that. Should I shut up too? Very constructive approach you have there.
—
to Crush on Sarah Palin:
You’re either misunderstanding or intentionally misconstruing my usage of the word script, which is what I was trying to prevent by explicitly specifying what I meant. All I’m saying is that before throwing out charges of white privilege (or flat-out calling him white) it might be helpful to slow down and make sure you aren’t saying it to a black man based on something he didn’t write.
@techoid, that’s fair enough. But I maintain that it is folly to think that the mere fact that someone is black means that they cannot be protective of white privilege. Not true. I have seen time and time again, Uncle Toms and Auntie Ruckus’ swarming during situations like this, seeking a pat on the head from white folks who they protect from the horde of “angry” “irrational” black people “playing the race card.” But I do take your point.
You’re either misunderstanding or intentionally misconstruing my usage of the word script,
Have you considered, maybe I’m not doing either and am just playing around with the term, which has multiple meanings that could be applied here, regardless of what you wrote?
Must I ask your permission how to post?
which is what I was trying to prevent by explicitly specifying what I meant. All I’m saying is that before throwing out charges of white privilege (or flat-out calling him white) it might be helpful to slow down and make sure you aren’t saying it to a black man based on something he didn’t write.
Only in America is the race anxiety about black vs white only.
Don’t you find it interesting that ABL is the wounded party here, yet you feel the need to defend the honor of some term, “white privilege”?
Do the stupid and idiotic things Jilal said bother you? If not, that’s fine, but they do bother ABL and others. For my part, it’s not just because Jilal said them, but that such things are STILL defended and forwarded in 2011, at all.
gn:
“You must think this is dkos or something wherein someone white can and will proceed to lecture me on what *I* in my freaking *opinion* can and cannot consider racist behavior on the part of someone white, someone black, or the motherfucking man in the moon. Again I say go sit down. This is a grown folks discussion.”
I think the point is that while the posters here — rightly and properly — defend ABL’s right not to be told how to feel about racism, in turn, they seem to have no problem telling other POCs how to feel about racism if their opinions diverge from this page’s consensus. At least that’s what I was trying to get across, if perhaps a bit more subtly.
I’m not telling anyone what they can and cannot do. I am stating that in my opinion, behavior (in which someone of color plays defense for a white person who is behaving racistly or in a manner in accordance with white privilege) is racist behavior, period. And it reveals a complete lack of intellectual sophistication with regards to critical race theories for you to have imagined that merely because the individual in question is (Arab?/Middle Eastern?), that he couldn’t possibly be racist towards African Americans or racistly providing cover for Walsh’s choice to antagonize black folks. And no one who reveals said lack of sophistication is about to substitute his or her judgment for mine in this regard. Get over it.
“I’m not telling anyone what they can and cannot do. I am stating that in my opinion, behavior (in which someone of color plays defense for a white person who is behaving racistly or in a manner in accordance with white privilege) is racist behavior, period.”
Opinions differ about what kind of behavior is racist and what isn’t. Opinions even differ among POC. Imagine that! Your response to this isn’t “opinions differ”, it’s “the people whose opinions differ are just tools of white people.” That’s insulting, no matter how many times you tell folks to “shut up”, “sit down” and “get over it”.
“merely because the individual in question is (Arab?/Middle Eastern?), that he couldn’t possibly be racist towards African Americans or racistly providing cover for Walsh’s choice to antagonize black folks.”
Literally no one has said that this couldn’t be the case. But that ain’t white privilege, because Zaid Jilani isn’t white (at least not in 2011 America).
One last time, and I’m out, because this is just dense. It is my OPINION that this person was behaving racistly. It is also my OPINION that anyone who would deflect from an incident of white privilege by claiming that such possibly couldn’t be the case because one of the individuals involved is of color reveals a total lack of intellectual sophistication with regards to race matters, because right out of the gate, the concept of internalized racism, of racism between people of color (it is LUDICROUS to assume that someone of arab or mideastern descent can’t be racist towards black people), and the manner in which people of color can hence be protective of white privilege just went over your head.
Why you’ve become upset is that I personally do not care about your thoughts pertaining to my OPINION. Because you have illustrated a lack of knowledge in this regard and thus I have no desire to substitute your judgment for that of my own. I have zero desire to have any sort of discussion about race/racial politics/racial theories with someone who does not understand basic concepts. Go. sit. down. and play with the kiddies in the nutroots. Goodbye and good luck.
And what are those basic concepts just curious?
(it is LUDICROUS to assume that someone of arab or mideastern descent can’t be racist towards black people)
Seriously. Or parrot prevailing anti-Black attitudes or other forms of cluelessness on the white right and left.
ABL You ROCK. Your post are intelligent, cogent, passionate, and represent ALL OF WHO YOU BE.
Imma drop this video link here for you ABL For me, it sums up how I feel and what I think about ALL the folks who try to define BLACK PEOPLE.
THEH PARTY/EXHIBIT 10 TOPSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikFnO-tmbwc&feature=related
ABL, I agree with everything in your post but waiting on people like Walsh to come to the table to talk about racism won’t happen.
If it does it will be from a academic pov and not the pov of actaully hearing it from the African-American community at large.
If you are not going to say the word “fuck” then I won’t be hanging around. An honest talk about race w/o curse words? meh.
In any case, buck up. this is a small world filled with small people.
xoxo
“If you are not going to say the word “fuck” then I won’t be hanging around. An honest talk about race w/o curse words?”
LOL, Amen!
Wow, I have missed some shit the past few days. Really, I’ve been out of the loop for at least a week or so. It’s disheartening to see the level of bullshit that you wade through. I don’t post a lot much of anywhere, but blogs like this and the other positive dem blogs have really been a blessing. Know that you have a lot of support out here, you and assianGrl and the other great bloggers here!
Hi ABL & all — don’t have time to write a lot right now, but mark this: All anyone needs to know about Joan Walsh is that she hired Camille Paglia. The End.
She also hired Glenn Greenwald.
JW is so enamored of herself she can’t see just how big of an self-important idiot she is.
She is part of the media elite who think that they are the reason any discussion happens. I’ve seen it time again. Folks having conversations and lo and behold, one of these media types chimes in and thinks that they control the conversation and were just waiting for their input.
Fuck them.
These clowns are sooooooo out of touch it isn’t funny. The truth is they exist to get each other off in a massive media circle-jerk. Those outside of their precious little bubble don’t care. We’re certainly not watching them on TV if ratings are anything to go by. I think any ratings they get are because of passive viewing (i.e. like TVs at the gym or other public places). There are only a handful of them but there they are, every single day, trying to interject their privileged and isolated opinions into any conversation in the belief that they control it. Arrogance and ignorance combined. And don’t even get me going on the unattractiveness of this gaggle of neuters…but that’s another matter altogether.
Joan Walsh can go take her narcissistic musings, throw in a few batteries, and go sit on it. And shut the fuck up while she’s at it.
That really gave me a giggle. Thanks.
gn:
“merely because the individual in question is (Arab?/Middle Eastern?), that he couldn’t possibly be racist towards African Americans or racistly providing cover for Walsh’s choice to antagonize black folks.”
Jilani is wrong and I’m not defending him! Is that stating it clearly enough that you’ll stop putting words in my mouth? My point which you agreed was fair was about throwing the white privilege thing around at the drop of a hat and I was more focused on lawscribe as my previous responses indicate. As it relates to Jilani, my point was that maybe it’s an equally-cursory take. Maybe he’s an ass of the non-racist variety, those exist too. Maybe he can’t form a good argument or being charitable maybe he was so pissed about the Nakba shootings that he wasn’t thinking straight either.
People make mistakes and you can’t get their measure over a few tweets. Does ABL going after Walsh using the San Francisco elitist frame mean ABL has her head full of right-wing assumptions? I assume she was angry and cut her some slack. Rather than asking for clarification of any parts where I’m unclear (I’m not a very good writer but Im doing my best to be clear) your first instinct is to look for reasons that I’m a child who should simply shut up while the adults talk.
“And no one who reveals said lack of sophistication is about to substitute his or her judgment for mine in this regard. Get over it.”
Appreciate if you’d stop putting words in my mouth. Giving my opinion is no more a substitution of judgement than you telling me what you think. Telling people to sit down, shut up, get over it, and in general treating people who disagree with you as unworthy of any respect however is a way of telling people what to do. That’s an oddly aggressive posture to be taking when you in turn accuse folks of telling you what to think for expressing their own opinions.
I always credit decent arguments regardless of who makes them, and your point about potentially misreading people’s opinions was a good one. I was not co-signing this foolishness about “throwing the white privilege thing around at the drop of a hat” which reads to me to be nothing save the tired “throwing the race card” canard, an offensive canard. And btw, I could not possibly care less about your civility complaint. Get over it, go sit down lol.
That’s interesting I asked you a question and you just totally ignored it.
What I meant by basic concepts was contained within the original comment: notions of internalized racism as well as the possibility that people of color can be racist against one another while defending white privilege.
Have a nice day.
But that concept or rather that notion as you put it goes back to the slave mentality when the “privileged” white people and slave masters separated dark skinned African-American’s who for the most part were field Negro’s and while light skinned African-American’s were house Negro’s.
My dad is white, Italian to be exact and the first thing he told me when I was a kid was that “in this imperfect world of ours you are black” and reminded me that I was also Italian. So on every single form that asked the question of race I alwasy marked “African-American.” Growing up and I grew up in a upscale middle class black neighborhood in the midwest (yes they do exist) I hardly ever played with white kids because of the fact that my mom was black.
I recall when I moved out to LA right after college back in 1982 thinking LA was this liberal bastion, a place I thought was sorta of ahead of the curve in terms of race relations then that of the south, was I ever wrong. I called my dad and mom complaining to them about how bad it really was out there. I had even thought about moving to SF after several visits, but by this point, I was ready to leave California altogether.
So I called a buddy of mine from college who went to NYC and landed a job on Wall St as an accountant. Having been to NYC on numerous occasions during the 70′s, going to the discos and partying, I never got into the politics of NYC back then; it was the late 70′s, things were kinda a different then. Anyway, my friend got me a interview and I landed the job on Wall St. in 1983. Well, NYC wasn’t any better when it came to housing and jobs and yet again I couldn’t believe the racism that I had encountered in this so called liberal/ progressive enclave that was NYC. But I had decided to make NYC my home and I’m still here as of today because there was a lot of other factors that I liked about it but racism still prevails to this day.
But how could you possibly understand those concepts if you’re white? Honestly speaking, I’ve gotten and felt a lot of resentment from white liberal/progressives.
Sigh.
@ Mereswin, really interesting comment. I think that people can choose to learn and comprehend these concepts if the desire is there. How Jilani and Walsh could have walked away from asiangrrl’s piece (which posited that the overwhelming majority of white liberals are NOT racist) with an accusation that abl was utilizing a racial discussion inappopriately speaks to their choice in this regard. They were not looking to learn and comprehend. IMO the idea that someone of color can carry water for a white person who is using racial privilege to shut down inconvenient discussions is not a difficult one to grasp. In my opinion (making it clear that this is just my *opinion*) they didn’t want to get it, they just wanted to attack abl. That’s why I’m not entertaining a bunch of these arguments even at risk of sounding rude.
Thanks for asking for clarification and for clarifying your own thoughts, and now I truly do need to make tracks. Have a nice evening.
Fuck’em ABL….they can go straight to hell with that whiny bullshit. Dont play nice with their fake azzes. WEE got ya back at WSY!
Jilani and then Walsh completely attacked abl based on a false premise, then played the victim afterwards. You can tell what a nice person abl is, because there are people who would have straight cussed Jilani + Walsh out for this particular pile of bs and went on their merry way.
Oh damnit…I tried and I tried to stay away, but these people are about to make me kerfuffle all over their ass. At least the republicants are direct with the racist backhanding, but to have supposed liberals be so condescending makes a brotha beyond furious. You may not know me ABL, but I got you on this…I might have to join le twitter and tear these posers down from their self anointed perch as the voice of the liberal base. I’m gonna keep thoughts pg13…for now.
ABL, you have nothing to apologize for, keeping doing what you are doing and don’t worry about the asses at Salon and Think Progress. Although I have to admit I’m surprised at them as you are right they usually have good posts on their blogs.
Oh well. Like someone said above, “Joan Walsh is just too impressed with herself.”
I’m a white liberal. I don’t pretend to understand the experience of racism from the other side. I mostly sit quiet and listen in an effort to learn.
All I want to say is that it blows my mind that there are otherwise reasonable and intelligent people who can turn into complete fools because someone wants to discuss race. They become the victim because their gumdrops and rainbows version of the discourse isn’t what everyone agrees to and can somehow filter out opposing comments and carry on like nothing happened to provoke anger. That’s sad.
And for added clarity, I’m referring to the Joan Walsh and her kind of “what did I do wrong? Everything is peaches and cream and you’re just crazy” types, not the ABLs of the world actually trying to get a legitimate point across and being slapped in the face for it.
Back to listening and reading mode.
“In my opinion (making it clear that this is just my *opinion*) they didn’t want to get it, they just wanted to attack abl.”
That was my opinion too. Jilani just came out of the chute as an asshole with his claim that ABL was playing “cheap racial politics” (whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean) and, of course, completely ignoring RILLY important issues that she should be concerned about. And making it plain that he had no knowledge of what the post was about or, indeed, that ABL did not even write it.
Then Joanie Baloney feels the need to pile on with her pulled-out-of-a-hat snotty Tim Wise reference. I used to have some respect for her but the clueless, race baiting, mean girl act she’s showing us lately has taken care of that. (And a previous commenter made a great point – she hired Camille Paglia. Enough said.)
The truth is, ABL, you’re getting to them. You’re stinging them and they don’t like discomfort. Keep it up, honey, just take care of yourself and take a breather when you need to. We need your voice.
As far as the jokers at BJ who seem to think it’s fun to bait and dismiss you (gyads!! your formatting is weird and your posts are looooong!! and you’re mean to them!) let’s figure out how to lure them over to the Roast. We usually like a couple of skinned, flayed and grilled trolls for dinner most days.
P.S. the racist head was funny. Very funny. Don’t let those jerk-offs affect your perspective or sense of humor!
Change is always difficult. And often painful. Especially if the target doesn’t want to be told change is necessary. Does anyone know a crackhead? Ever watch intervention?
I think that’s where the pushback comes from.
Dear ABL…you are doing fine, keep pushing their (our) buttons.
It seems you have every reason to be angry. Too bad that just incites further bullying behavior on the part of the Tweeters.
Thank you for your honesty. That is all.
ABL, I’ve known you for an internet minute or two. One thing I can say is that I’ve never viewed your opinions as worthless or lacking value. I’m a privileged white woman from Kansas (who always writes in her vote for President, btw) and, while I may not agree with your opinions 100% of the time, I certainly appreciate the passion with which you express them.
As for your apology — I get it. We all have moments where we act “ugly” or “hateful” or “in a manner that doesn’t reflect how we want people to perceive us.” Whatever. The point is that that we ALL have these moments. Whether they are spoken out of frustration, or hate, or outrage, it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that it is human nature to get bent out of shape when we are feeling attacked. Want to challenge me, commenters? Go ahead. I dare you to come up with an instance when you were PUBLICLY denigrated and did nothing to try and protect yourself. Having trouble…thought so.
The issue I see with the exchanges on race relations is that your “detractors” (for lack of a better term) are lacking in humanity. They were clearly baiting you. You know you fell for it. We’ve all been on the end of the stick where someone knows which buttons to push. Would Joan Walsh or Zaid Jilani have said the things they wrote to your face? Probably. Would 99% of the people who made hateful comments have said them to your face? I’m guessing not.
The interwebs are a brilliant and vicious thing. Brilliant because they allow us to share common experiences and because they allow us to experience things that wouls NEVER be commonly shared via “real life.” To wit — how else would a self-proclaimed “privileged white woman from Kansas” have been able to understand the concerns of a bi-racial half-Jewish woman who lives in L.A.? I doubt the fates would have intervened and put us on the same DisneyLand trolley last the last time I was in Anaheim.
To continue, the interwebs are also vicious because they give people the sense that they are allowed to say whatever the hell they want to say (which they undoubtedly are — I’m from Fred Phelps country and I don’t doubt their constitutional right to hatemonger, no matter how much I despise it). But what they DON’T create is some sort of electronic forcefield that magically protects people from feeling hurt when they are publicly flamed.
Again, if people would treat each other in the online word with even the smallest common courtesty we would extend to a stranger on an elevator, this discourse on race relations would be exponentially more productive. When you ask for a “civilized” discussion on race relations, this is what I interpret you to mean — that you would like for people of varing viewpoints to sit down and TALK about what the issues mean to them, absent of racebaiting, hateful speech, and threatening language.
Calling you, ABL, a “shitty blogger” or a “brown privilegist” (I made that one up) does nothing to further the cause of someone who disagrees with your views. In fact, it only makes them look plainly incapable of having an intelligent discussion.
So, I’m on board for the tea sandwiches and white gloves. My viewpoint of “who gets a piece of the cookie” goes something like this — “who the fuck cares? I can make more cookies.”
I hope you continue to write about whatever thoughts bounce around in your tumor-busted head. I hope that the people who write hatefully about you end up “getting theirs,” in a karmic sense. And, finally, I hope that we are all able to realize that, regardless of our viewpoints, there is always room for intelligent discussion that does not resort to sensationalism or inflammatory statements in order to express our opinions.
That is MY 40,000 word long tirade. Since I’m from the Midwest, I’ll sign off with a very pleasant “bless your heart” to anyone who might feel differently.
A very interesting read, my take on the exchange was that Zaid Jilani misread the intents of AsianGirl’s article & came after ABL unfairly.
However, I do not know the history of interactions, so I can only speak of what I read here.
Certainly no one can argue that there is not oppression around the world based on race, religion, culture … and for people who may be from the Middle East or have very close religious/cultural/family ties to the Middle East will see their views/perceptions as being important. Just as black/African Americans have suffered for a few hundred years under slavery/racism. I am a white, American male, I know my own experience the best, but I fully admit I don’t know what ANYONE else’s experience has been, whether they be my neighbor, someone of a different race, culture, sex, sexual orientation, religion/non-religion.
On the other hand, we do share some experiences, and many of us have common interests, values, etc. No matter the race/religion/culture/sex, we all do have some interconnectedness.
As a white person, liberal, having lived in inner city Chicago as a manager/resident of a halfway house, I learned to first treat people as people, but to respect their life experiences as well. I was certainly in the minority where I lived, sometimes the only white person in the house.
Again, I don’t fully know the life experience of anyone else, but I did get some insite & experiences to sense what racism might feel like. We’d frequently get together & go out as a group, to see a movie, to grab a bight to eat, to socialize, to shop, etc. It was not too difficult to ‘feel’ the eyes on us as a group, when we were in white-majority neighborhoods. Another blatant example was hailing down a taxi. If I was out & about myself, I had very little difficulty getting a cab. But if I had a couple friends along with me, people of color, the cab flew on by.
OK, that is what it is. I do the best I can to be support the current liberal agenda, which includes equal rights, equal opportunities, etc.
I do have to share one thing, from my experiences, ‘generalizations’ of people based on race, religion, culture, etc are a no-no. The generalization ‘white people are’ can be taken as offensive, if I don’t know the person too well & the full context of what they said/meant. (I know is was AisianGirls words, not yours) As I personally don’t know anyone who’s commented here, if someone came at me with the ‘white people are/aren’t’ statement, warning flags will come up. I don’t think it unreasonable to assume that if I said ‘black people are’, or ‘Hispanics are’, or ‘Muslims are’, many in those groups would have their own warning flag raised.
I have no sides in the scuffle that went on, and I hope hard feelings are put in the past by now. Even though it appears to have been triggered by Zaid Jilani likely frustration, there were harsh words from all directions. And, ABL, I know your style of writing & profanity doesn’t offend me in the least in your articles, but … profanity in an argument usually escalates the emotions, and at the very least, weakens your own argument.
I’m not attacking you personally at all, just offering some of my experiences. I am not immune to profanity in arguments, I am guilty at times, too.
I can’t think of anything to say except some version of ‘they’re not worth it’ so I’ll say that. They certainly aren’t. But you ARE worth it. You’re worth listening to, you’re worth paying attention to, you’re worth reading, you’re worth thinking about. I feel I can’t say much except praise, because I’m not black – not even brown, just pale and pasty with the odd freckle here and there that probably doesn’t count. But my son is mixed race, and I have views, and empathy, and experiences, and I read, and think, and it’s because of all that I can say, you’re worth it. Lucid, intelligent, passionate, a bit shouty sometimes – hell, that’s what makes you unique, it’s what makes you YOU, it’s what we want, it’s what the world needs. I hope you can be true to yourself, and never ashamed that you got angry, said a bad word here or there – it doesn’t matter. If it helps, I’d rather read one word from you than ten thousand from any of them. Relax, treat yourself well, be kind to yourself and remember how many people out there care.