It is pure unadulterated bullshit being perpetrated by a media machine that has anything but the interests of the American people in mind.
Seriously? With the mosque business? What.the.fuck. I know 68% of people out there disagree with building a “mosque” at Ground Zero, but I’m willing to bet My Left Foot1 that if the facts (not propaganda and fear tactics), the facts were presented to each person comprising that 68%, at least half of them would change their mind.
The facts are, it is not a mosque. It is a cultural center that has a mosque in it. Christians have the YMCA (it’s really fun to stay there, apparently) and Jewish folk have the JCC (Jewish peeps were smart enough not to let a dude in an Indian headdress have anything to do with a song about their community organization), right? Well, Muslims want their own community center. A community center with a basketball court and maybe a pool and whatever else community centers normally have.
I know that both the YMCA and the JCC have summer camp programs. (I went to a YMCA camp from the age of 6, until they kicked me out for smoking cigarettes on camp grounds when I was 17 years old, only to be asked back as a staff member when I was 18 years old. Drunk Good times.) And even though I’m not and never have been particularly religious, I never once felt like my summer camp was trying to shove Jesus down my throat. It was about having fun with kids my age in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey. (And later, drinking wine coolers with kids my age in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey.)
And you know what? I bet if the Park 51 Muslim Center were to have a summer camp program open to all kids of whatever religion, those kids who attend, especially non-Muslim kids, might learn a thing or two about Muslim culture and tolerance. They might learn that not all Muslims are terrorists. (And not all Muslims are our President.)
But, as Gladstone at Cracked.com so eloquently put it:
A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you don’t call St. Mary’s Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you? Well, maybe you do. You read about politics on the Internet from a guy who claims not to write about politics, so maybe you’re functionally illiterate. But the point is, you shouldn’t.
But “Islamic Community Center open to the public” doesn’t have the same ability to scare people the way “mosque” does. I mean, you hear “mosque” you think mosquito, you think STING! You hear “mosque” you think “mask,” you think DECEPTION! You hear “community center” you think “OK. One more place I’ll never go.” So, yeah, clearly the decision was made by those who hate you to call this the “Ground Zero Mosque” even though it’s not at Ground Zero and not technically a mosque. Why are we still discussing this? Why haven’t you already asked Sarah Palin if she’s the devil on her Twitter account? Oh, that’s right. Because the devil is supposed to be good at lying.
The Asshats on the Right have made this cultural center their electoral issue. And, with Fox News’ “fair and balanced” assistance, they have whipped the American public up into a right frenzy. And what’s more, they know exactly what they are doing, because they are cunning, and they are dishonest, and they think Americans are too stupid, too lazy, or too busy to ferret out the truth.
They repeat the same talking points over and over and over until they seep into the American consciousness and then at some point the talking points become facts and those “facts” become indisputable truth. And if you disagree, then you hate America and you want more Americans to die at the hands of Muslims who are right now at this moment planning to blow your shit up.
I got myself all worked up into a frenzy over this on Friday because it makes me extremely angry. Not angry at the people who may have had some reservations about a mosque being built at ground zero. But, angry at the people — the media — who do nothing to correct this misperception. It is not a mosque. And it is not at Ground Zero. And that is the truth.
What I find most offensive is that these purported constitutionalists — these lovers of freedom — have proven that they only love the freedom that they want. They only want the government to stay out of social issues that affect them. But when it comes to people and Constitution-ey stuff that they don’t like? All of a sudden, they are more than willing to take a giant dump on the Constitution.
Again, from Gladstone at Cracked:
But the real reason I’m writing is not just because of people like Sarah Palin, but because of shameful, spineless panderers like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Here’s a statement from each of them designed to give the appearance of being tolerant while adhering to good old-fashioned common sense values:
From Sarah Palin’s Twitter Feed:
“We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?”
And from Harry Reid’s spokesperson:
While respecting that Muslims have a First Amendment right to religious freedom, Reid “thinks this mosque should be built some place else,” his spokesman Jim Manley said Monday.
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.
You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.
The Burlington Coat factory is private property. Those who want to build on it are private citizens. They are violating no law in wanting to build a community center. Under what authority do you propose we stop them? There is no “unless you’re a Muslim within X yards of a national tragedy exception” to the free exercise of religion. Do the Gingrichs and Palins and Reids want to start a precedent where you can compel people not to exercise the freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution provided enough people don’t like you?
So listen up, 68%. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t want to be free to exercise your religion yet at the same time want to hinder another American’s right to the free exercise of his or her religion. It’s logically inconsistent, i.e., really fucking dumb.
My point here is not just to repost most of the Cracked article (which is amazing, by the way), but also to repost snippets from a thread from my friend’s Facebook wall: [It's a long'un, but well worth reading.]
MY FRIEND’S FACEBOOK STATUS: [linking an article from The Nation, Ground Zero for Free Speech]
And then there’s Sarah Palin, America’s Tweetheart: “Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing.” Yes, peace-seeking Muslims, just crawl back into your cave and leave us real Americans alone so we can get over the terrible crime committed by people who are not you!
PEACE SEEKING MUSLIMS? Do you know what the Imam that wants to build the mosque there said after 9-11??? Basically said that the U.S. deserved the attack on the twin towers! Even other very tolerant religious groups oppose building it that close to Ground Zero.
And ties to funding terrorism! http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.6766/pub_detail.asp
Down Newt Jr.! Yes, let’s model ourselves after countries with no religious tolerance, that is surely the answer. If we want to subscribe to your way of thinking then there should be no Methodist churches in OKC because after all Timothy McVeigh was a Christian Methodist and if he was a Methodist then that means all Methodists are terrorists!
I do know what he said: “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”
[COMMENTER 1], we don’t live in an ARAB country. We live in America. I don’t feel like having a friggin Mormon church down the street from my house, but I do, and I have no basis to complain about it because every citizen is guaranteed religious freedom. That’s it. The first amendment says they can build a cultural center and you can call it a mosque and protest.
i would like to edit what i said, now that i think about it. i have every right to complain about all the mormon churches and their delicious casseroles BUT i can’t expect that i am somehow going to prevent churches from being built.
I just hope they put the “Suspicious Packages” gay stripclub right beside it. I’m all for tolerance, but there’s only a hundred other blocks that. They can build their mosque on. That is a fact. :/
THERE IS ALREADY A MOSQUE FOUR FUCKING BLOCKS AWAY YOU WOLFHUNTING THRILLER JACKET WEARING NITWIT!
people, you should read this and stop conflating muslims with terrorism. it makes you sound ignorant and it’s really embarrassing considering we live in a country that allow [sic]2 for religious freedom.
Sure, let’s SUPPORT those that fund terrorism against our country! What a GREAT idea! You should do some research on those that want to destroy America and have you wear a veil and live as a slave. Women’s rights aren’t exactly high on the Muslim list of things to change.
There is religious tolerance and then there is supporting those that want to kill us. Two VERY different things, so I’d say you are VERY uneducated about this topic. These peole have infiltrated our country and are attempting to attack us once again. Dozens of plots have been uncovered and thwarted since 9-11. The money seems to be the easy way to trace these terrorists. The Imam that wants to build the Mosque has ties to terrorism. THAT is religious tolerance? REALLY?
New Yorkers and Americans who consider Rauf a not-so-secret radical are not alone. The devout Bengali Muslim dissident Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury agrees that efforts to build a giant mosque opposite Ground Zero are an abomination. Its construction will only delight jihadists, whom he wants to disappoint. His Weekly Blitz newspaper has published many objections to Rauf’s plan, not least of all since New Yorkers are overwhelmingly opposed, considering it as insensitive, say, as “the German government opening … a Nazi appreciation museum right outside the Auschwitz death camp.”
i’m sorry, but i can’t even acknowledge the nazi reference.
the center won’t be opposite to ground zero, it won’t be on ground zero, and it won’t be opening on the anniversary of 9/11, no matter what the facebook chain statuses are saying.
LOL. Why does everyone and their mother (mine included) call it a “mosque?” It is a community center. It is modeled on the 92nd St Y. Which, by the way people, isn’t ever referred to as a synagogue even though they do hold Jewish events there. If anyone is interested, Billy Joe Armstrong will be speaking there in September (that would be at the 92nd St Y, not the “Mosque at Ground Zero). ;)
[COMMENTER 1], I think you need some paxil. Most Muslims do not want to destroy America. Yes there are a group of crazy extremists that do, but you know what we have a bunch of crazy extremist Christians that live right here (hello KKK, Eric Robert Rudolph, Fred Phelphs, I am looking at you). We seem fine that The Westboro Baptist Church is allowed freedom of speech in the form of protesting military funerals, I don’t see why Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to have a center where they can interact with their community. In fact, I think that if more people met actual Muslims (rather than just hearing about them on TV) then they would see that “they” are just like “us.” We all want the same things, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (there is my shout out to [NAME DELETED]).
really? NAZIS. so all muslims are nazis now.
what new yorkers and americans? the ones who have been convinced by idiots who don’t know what they are talking about?
first of all, it’s a cultural center. second of all, there are 100 mosques in NY. third of all, FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
last i checked, the nazi’s [sic]3 weren’t a religion.
fourth of all, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS.
stop reading what the idiots are sending you by email. stop watching glenn beck.
and what [COMMENTER 3] said.
“giant mosque opposite Ground Zero”?!?! OMGWTFBBQ! It is gonna be 15 floors! That is not giant by any stretch of the imagination. Go to google maps, type in “45 Park Place, NYC, NY, and take a little walking tour of the area. There are many, many buildings much higher! 15 floors might be bigger than the 4-5 floors of Burlington Coat Factory presently there, but it will not dwarf anything in that area. Sheesh.
It’s not the “peace seeking” Muslims that try to murder Americans my friends. Have ANY of you ever met anyone that lost a family member in the 9-11 attacks? They seem to have a SLIGHTLY different outlook on things! Too bad things aren’t as simple as your outlook on this topic, but there are people that pose as peaceful to gain power, money and knowledge that will be used to kill Americans. WAKE UP!
Oh yes, and Muslim countries are renowned for human and women’s rights??? Oh wait… quite the opposite! They live in the bloody stone age! And that’s how many Muslims want the rest of the world, or they want to destroy it.
Well for full disclosure, I was on my way TO the WTC on the morning of 9/11/01. I ended up on a later train or I would have been in the WTC or at the very least in the tunnel. I was THERE watching (not on TV) when the 2nd plane hit. And I was standing across the river watching when the towers went down (again not on TV). I was stuck in Jersey City for a four days after the attack, I couldn’t go to my family because all roads into and out of the area where closed and all public transportation was not running. I went to a hotel to call my mom because nobody’s cell phone worked. Thank god I got through because my mom knew I was headed there and she thought I was dead cuz my cell kept going straight to voicemail. Two minutes after we walked in to the hotel it was evacuated by the FBI because it was over 6 stories and they were evacuating all tall buildings in the area as there were still 17 planes unaccounted for. I could smell the smoke and burnt flesh for months from my apartment and from my classes at NYU.
Oh, and I did lose a cousin through marriage (a firefighter). I also knew another firefighter who lived in my town who died. I also have friends who are muslim, so the only thing you said that I agree with is that things aren’t simple. But you know what? I bet YOU don’t have any personal experience with the attack on the WTC and that YOU don’t know any actual Muslim people.
[NO FURTHER RESPONSE FROM COMMENTER 1 ON THIS THREAD (It's hard to argue with COMMENTER 3 when you've copied your post from biebs knows where [the "my friends" and "WAKE UP!" are dead give-aways])]
[... BUT ON ANOTHER THREAD ON THE SAME FRIEND'S WALL...]
MY FRIEND POSTED A LINK TO THE CRACKED.COM POST:
No seriously. pls read.
FRIEND [quoting the Cracked.com post]:
“But one thing is definitely true: if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I don’t want to see that. Because unlike those with power and influence who would lie to you, I love America.”
Since I’m part of the SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT of American that oppose the Mosque being built withing 2.5 blocks (yeah I can read too) apparently I’m an idiot? Let’s go back to pre 9-11 thinking and just open the borders, let anyone that wants to support terrorism do it freely!
GREAT plan folks! Do any of you do any research on the people that planned this mosque? Ties to terrorisim? And when it’s complete the radical Muslims around the world will celebrate another victory.
Even if 100% of the people associated with this were truly peaceful, it is rude and insensitive to build it anywhere near Ground Zero.
Enjoy being so eliightened as you claim in your 32% minority. Since other disagree with you, they MUST be ignorant. Love the way you all think, it’s the real problem here! Disagree and everyone else is cave man with no idea about humanity. Hope your family and friends aren’t killed in the next terrorist attack. Oh yes, those radical Muslims are plotting all over the world this minute.
[COMMENTER 1], i read the article you posted about the terrorist ties and the gist i got from it was the cordoba initiative has office space next to a guy who knows a guy who funds terrorism. ish.
and look, the radical muslims will probably celebrate. fine. they probably celebrate every time a soldier dies, a bomb goes off, an american chokes to death on a cheeseburger. let them party, i don’t really care. what i care about is non-radical muslim americans who have a right to their version of a YMCA.
i really wish another person in the 68% would chime in (i know i have plenty of conservative friends!) so [COMMENTER 1] doesn’t fight the good fight alone always.
Thank you for posting this. I also posted a link to a video that pretty much said the same things. All I want is for the actual facts of what is really going on to get out. My credo is you have a right to your opinions, but you do not have a right to be wrong in your facts. If you have facts that differ from what this article and what the video present, please, by all means present them.
I didn’t read the article but 1. I will state I am a registered Republican. 2. That being said, I think the Mosque should be allowed to be built. It was going to be built before the attacks, I believe it is UNAMERICAN to tell them they can’t, they aren’t terrorists and frankly it is NOT on the Ground Zero site it is like one or two blocks away! Not only that but they have plans for a Sept 11th memorial inside the Mosque to pay tribute to the people who lost their lives!! 3. [COMMENTER 1], I don’t know you, but yes, you are an idiot.
It’s not even a Mosque, it’s a Community Center with a cooking school and a basketball court with the top 2 floors for worship. If you watch the video I put up a day or so ago, I think he does talk about the memorial they will have. It’s well worth watching it.
ME [in response to my friend's point that she wished someone else would jump in to argue COMMENTER 1's point]:
i do too. i’m seriously stunned by [COMMENTER 1]‘s line of thinking. and i really want to know whether he gets his news from any sources other than fox news.
i have a friend who recently did a study on media intake. some very high percentage of fox news watchers only get their news from fox news. non-fox news watchers tend to get their news from a range of media… ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, CNN. of course fox news would call these outlets “drive by liberal media,” but really? it cannot be that every other media outlet is so biased and slanted EXCEPT holy fox news. that argument is a non starter. it’s what they tell you to get hooked on the fox news teat.
i seriously don’t think you or people like you are idiots for believing what Fox is selling. it’s what you know. it’s comfortable. a warm blanket of propaganda and fear that will keep you up at night and ready to shoot the first brown person you see. and then just check your email in the morning for the latest chain letter that will give you all the artillery you need to beat back us godless liberals with our liberty and justice for ALL talk.
but at a certain point, don’t you people get angry about being fed lies? THEY ARE PALPABLE LIES. THEY CAN BE VERIFIED THROUGH A WIDE VARIETY OF SOURCES.
so i really do not understand what would make a person entrench him or herself in a view, whether majority or not, that IS NOT LOGICAL.
it’s just not logical. it’s reactionary. and that’s why the neocon talking heads fill your heads with [it]. fear and paranoia. because they want you to believe their bullshit, so you continue watching their bullshit and they can go out and get book deals, and talking deals, and thriller jackets.
they do not know what they are talking about. Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. are you going to trust a guy with a blackboard and a piece of chalk and some fake eyeglasses. COME ON. you’re smarter than that.
and all you have to do is step outside your safe zone and go figure out what is going on.
moreover, stop asking questions to straw men and then wrapping up your non-argument by playing to emotion. “Did you do any research? Do you know their ties to Islam?” “Um, yeah, actually. Jon Stewart mentioned it the other day, and because I’m not going to rely on one (fake news) source for my information…, i googled it. if you have time to facebook, you have time to google.
“Hope your family and friends aren’t killed in the next terrorist attack.”
yeah, well i hope you and your family don’t get hit by a bus, which is MORE likely to happen than some guy running a cultural center — A GUY WHO APPEARED AND WAS WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS ON FOX NEWS — planning to attack THE WTC OR ANY OTHER BUILDING, especially now that everybody has their heads crammed up the cultural center’s cramhole.
from now on, i’m going to fight Fox News talking points with Comedy Central talking points. it’s a sad day in america when one can get more accurate news from a couple of comedians (colbert/stewart [weird, i usually say stewart/colbert]) than from people who call themselves journalists.
Oh and by the way? Fair and Balanced? Bullshit. Fox Corp. just gave 1 million dollars to the Republican [Governor's Association]
Please please for the love of God, Allah, Buddha, whatever, think for yourselves.
The way you are thinking is destroying this country. And when this country lays in ruins, you will have no one to blame but yourself.
i’m all mixed caps and crappy grammar because i’m so angry at what’s going on right now. and i’m shouty. but i’m always shouty.
Actually [COMMENTER 1], I suspect that the radical Muslims are celebrating the fact that Americans are so willing to strip other Americans of basic Constitutional rights because they’re afraid. I suspect that the uproar that this has caused is far more entertaining and delightful for them than the erection of any Mosque/Cultural Center. I suspect that the 62% majority is comprised of people asked the loaded question, “Do you think it’s ok to build a Mosque at Ground Zero?” I suspect most Americans, if they knew the facts, wouldn’t be so bent into knots over the issue. I know that my Mother, when I explained where the proposed Mosque was to be built, was fine with it. She didn’t think building it AT Ground Zero was a great idea, but 2 blocks away? Not an issue.
American and Americans are better than this…..
also, a friend of mind just confirmed that one of [COMMENTER 1]‘s comments was also posted on her wall. verbatim.
gotta think for yourself, peeps!
Radical Muslims want a lot of people dead. Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam that wants to build the Mosque/Community Center 2 blocks away from Ground Zero, is not a radical Muslim. Don’t believe me – Google him and read for yourself.
This isn’t about the human rights of other countries. That has nothing to do with THIS issue. That is horrible and deplorable, but it has nothing to do with the Mosque. Period. Though I do find it ironic that you would bring up the repression of others while suggesting we repress the rights of peaceful Muslim Americans. Interesting.
[COMMENTER 1]…it is absolutely true that crazy, radical muslim extremists want us dead. There are many people who are taught to hate others from birth by their parents (however that is nothing that is exclusive to muslims.) Many people hate gays, jews, black people, muslims, catholics, asians, mexicans, rich people, poor people, cookies (ok, I made that one up)…you get the picture. However the biggest flaw to your argument is that you seem to imply that all Muslims want us dead. You said it right first. The crazy radicals want us dead. MOST Muslims are NOT crazy radicals. Also if you look at any country that is religiously founded, their attitudes toward women suck. Because women are considered property in things like the Qu’ran and…the Bible. I accept the fact that both are products of the time in which they were written with its own propaganda for political reasons. (Oh man, and the mistranslations…don’t get me started).
What is happening here (today/present tense), is that “minds are warped and filled with hate” by the media. For the betterment of our country? Um, no…to sell advertising time. You know so that people tune in and see that sparkly commercial for floor cleaners, while getting their rage on (thanks [FRIEND] for that awesome phrase). Oh and the better a shows ratings, the more money the host gets. So basically we listen to people who really only care about ratings. They don’t care about Americans or American values (well expect for the wanting to make boat loads of money, that they care about). They don’t care about God or truth or liberty or the constitution, unless it is ways to exploit those things for their own benefit.
@[COMMENTER 3]- MARRY ME!
What I found most interesting about this exchange is that COMMENTER 1 was pasting pre-made comments by whothefuckever, which he copied from wherethefuckever; some nonsense he likely got in a chain email, or found on <www.hereareyourcrazytalkingpointsforfacebook.com>. And as soon as I called him out, he went the “you must be stupid” route. I won’t copy what I said in response because it was pretty pretentious, and I even called myself out for being a dick by posting that particular response.
But all of this is simply to illustrate a point: People just grab “facts” from whatever Conservative Asshat Lab where facts are created out of thin air, and then post them and repost them until they have an air of “truthiness.” And next thing you know, SIXTY-EIGHT FUCKING PERCENT OF AMERICANS ARE IN AN UPROAR OVER A NON-ISSUE.
But, when you analyze it, and listen to people who are thinking rationally (like every commenter above except for 1), it is literally impossible to continue to believe that the cultural center is some sort of radical Islam slap in America’s face without conceding that you are illogical.
So, for those of you who don’t have the energy to argue with “these people,” but still find that you want to do something about the repeated brain explosions you are likely suffering, just come over here, copy the appropriate comment from above, head back over to Facebook, and slap it in the comment box. If they are going to copy and paste bullshit talking points, then at least those of us who still actually believe in all that liberty and justice for all crap can fight their bullshit talking points with smooth delicious FACTS and LOGIC.
THINK FOR YOURSELVES.
Angry Hulk Lady out.
1 If I’m wrong, I’ve got a fresh copy of the Daniel Day Lewis classic ready to go…
2 I can’t believe I had to [sic] myself…
4 STEVE HOLT!