It is pure unadulterated bullshit being perpetrated by a media machine that has anything but the interests of the American people in mind.
Seriously? With the mosque business? What.the.fuck. I know 68% of people out there disagree with building a “mosque” at Ground Zero, but I’m willing to bet My Left Foot1 that if the facts (not propaganda and fear tactics), the facts were presented to each person comprising that 68%, at least half of them would change their mind.
The facts are, it is not a mosque. It is a cultural center that has a mosque in it. Christians have the YMCA (it’s really fun to stay there, apparently) and Jewish folk have the JCC (Jewish peeps were smart enough not to let a dude in an Indian headdress have anything to do with a song about their community organization), right? Well, Muslims want their own community center. A community center with a basketball court and maybe a pool and whatever else community centers normally have.
I know that both the YMCA and the JCC have summer camp programs. (I went to a YMCA camp from the age of 6, until they kicked me out for smoking cigarettes on camp grounds when I was 17 years old, only to be asked back as a staff member when I was 18 years old. Drunk Good times.) And even though I’m not and never have been particularly religious, I never once felt like my summer camp was trying to shove Jesus down my throat. It was about having fun with kids my age in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey. (And later, drinking wine coolers with kids my age in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey.)
And you know what? I bet if the Park 51 Muslim Center were to have a summer camp program open to all kids of whatever religion, those kids who attend, especially non-Muslim kids, might learn a thing or two about Muslim culture and tolerance. They might learn that not all Muslims are terrorists. (And not all Muslims are our President.)
But, as Gladstone at Cracked.com so eloquently put it:
A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you don’t call St. Mary’s Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you? Well, maybe you do. You read about politics on the Internet from a guy who claims not to write about politics, so maybe you’re functionally illiterate. But the point is, you shouldn’t.
But “Islamic Community Center open to the public” doesn’t have the same ability to scare people the way “mosque” does. I mean, you hear “mosque” you think mosquito, you think STING! You hear “mosque” you think “mask,” you think DECEPTION! You hear “community center” you think “OK. One more place I’ll never go.” So, yeah, clearly the decision was made by those who hate you to call this the “Ground Zero Mosque” even though it’s not at Ground Zero and not technically a mosque. Why are we still discussing this? Why haven’t you already asked Sarah Palin if she’s the devil on her Twitter account? Oh, that’s right. Because the devil is supposed to be good at lying.
The Asshats on the Right have made this cultural center their electoral issue. And, with Fox News’ “fair and balanced” assistance, they have whipped the American public up into a right frenzy. And what’s more, they know exactly what they are doing, because they are cunning, and they are dishonest, and they think Americans are too stupid, too lazy, or too busy to ferret out the truth.
They repeat the same talking points over and over and over until they seep into the American consciousness and then at some point the talking points become facts and those “facts” become indisputable truth. And if you disagree, then you hate America and you want more Americans to die at the hands of Muslims who are right now at this moment planning to blow your shit up.
I got myself all worked up into a frenzy over this on Friday because it makes me extremely angry. Not angry at the people who may have had some reservations about a mosque being built at ground zero. But, angry at the people — the media — who do nothing to correct this misperception. It is not a mosque. And it is not at Ground Zero. And that is the truth.
What I find most offensive is that these purported constitutionalists — these lovers of freedom — have proven that they only love the freedom that they want. They only want the government to stay out of social issues that affect them. But when it comes to people and Constitution-ey stuff that they don’t like? All of a sudden, they are more than willing to take a giant dump on the Constitution.
Again, from Gladstone at Cracked:
But the real reason I’m writing is not just because of people like Sarah Palin, but because of shameful, spineless panderers like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Here’s a statement from each of them designed to give the appearance of being tolerant while adhering to good old-fashioned common sense values:
From Sarah Palin’s Twitter Feed:
“We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?”
And from Harry Reid’s spokesperson:
While respecting that Muslims have a First Amendment right to religious freedom, Reid “thinks this mosque should be built some place else,” his spokesman Jim Manley said Monday.
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.
You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.
The Burlington Coat factory is private property. Those who want to build on it are private citizens. They are violating no law in wanting to build a community center. Under what authority do you propose we stop them? There is no “unless you’re a Muslim within X yards of a national tragedy exception” to the free exercise of religion. Do the Gingrichs and Palins and Reids want to start a precedent where you can compel people not to exercise the freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution provided enough people don’t like you?
So listen up, 68%. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t want to be free to exercise your religion yet at the same time want to hinder another American’s right to the free exercise of his or her religion. It’s logically inconsistent, i.e., really fucking dumb.
My point here is not just to repost most of the Cracked article (which is amazing, by the way), but also to repost snippets from a thread from my friend’s Facebook wall: [It's a long'un, but well worth reading.]
MY FRIEND’S FACEBOOK STATUS: [linking an article from The Nation, Ground Zero for Free Speech]
And then there’s Sarah Palin, America’s Tweetheart: “Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing.” Yes, peace-seeking Muslims, just crawl back into your cave and leave us real Americans alone so we can get over the terrible crime committed by people who are not you!
COMMENTER 1:
PEACE SEEKING MUSLIMS? Do you know what the Imam that wants to build the mosque there said after 9-11??? Basically said that the U.S. deserved the attack on the twin towers! Even other very tolerant religious groups oppose building it that close to Ground Zero.
COMMENTER 1:
And ties to funding terrorism! http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.6766/pub_detail.asp
COMMENTER 1:
COMMENTER 2:
Down Newt Jr.! Yes, let’s model ourselves after countries with no religious tolerance, that is surely the answer. If we want to subscribe to your way of thinking then there should be no Methodist churches in OKC because after all Timothy McVeigh was a Christian Methodist and if he was a Methodist then that means all Methodists are terrorists!
FRIEND:
I do know what he said: “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”
[COMMENTER 1], we don’t live in an ARAB country. We live in America. I don’t feel like having a friggin Mormon church down the street from my house, but I do, and I have no basis to complain about it because every citizen is guaranteed religious freedom. That’s it. The first amendment says they can build a cultural center and you can call it a mosque and protest.
FRIEND:
i would like to edit what i said, now that i think about it. i have every right to complain about all the mormon churches and their delicious casseroles BUT i can’t expect that i am somehow going to prevent churches from being built.
COMMENTER 3:
I just hope they put the “Suspicious Packages” gay stripclub right beside it. I’m all for tolerance, but there’s only a hundred other blocks that. They can build their mosque on. That is a fact. :/
ME:
THERE IS ALREADY A MOSQUE FOUR FUCKING BLOCKS AWAY YOU WOLFHUNTING THRILLER JACKET WEARING NITWIT!
ME:
people, you should read this and stop conflating muslims with terrorism. it makes you sound ignorant and it’s really embarrassing considering we live in a country that allow [sic]2 for religious freedom.
http://www.truth-out.org/a-mosque-should-be-built-ground-zero62270
COMMENTER 1:
Sure, let’s SUPPORT those that fund terrorism against our country! What a GREAT idea! You should do some research on those that want to destroy America and have you wear a veil and live as a slave. Women’s rights aren’t exactly high on the Muslim list of things to change.
There is religious tolerance and then there is supporting those that want to kill us. Two VERY different things, so I’d say you are VERY uneducated about this topic. These peole have infiltrated our country and are attempting to attack us once again. Dozens of plots have been uncovered and thwarted since 9-11. The money seems to be the easy way to trace these terrorists. The Imam that wants to build the Mosque has ties to terrorism. THAT is religious tolerance? REALLY?
COMMENTER 1:
New Yorkers and Americans who consider Rauf a not-so-secret radical are not alone. The devout Bengali Muslim dissident Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury agrees that efforts to build a giant mosque opposite Ground Zero are an abomination. Its construction will only delight jihadists, whom he wants to disappoint. His Weekly Blitz newspaper has published many objections to Rauf’s plan, not least of all since New Yorkers are overwhelmingly opposed, considering it as insensitive, say, as “the German government opening … a Nazi appreciation museum right outside the Auschwitz death camp.”
FRIEND:
i’m sorry, but i can’t even acknowledge the nazi reference.
the center won’t be opposite to ground zero, it won’t be on ground zero, and it won’t be opening on the anniversary of 9/11, no matter what the facebook chain statuses are saying.
COMMENTER 3:
LOL. Why does everyone and their mother (mine included) call it a “mosque?” It is a community center. It is modeled on the 92nd St Y. Which, by the way people, isn’t ever referred to as a synagogue even though they do hold Jewish events there. If anyone is interested, Billy Joe Armstrong will be speaking there in September (that would be at the 92nd St Y, not the “Mosque at Ground Zero). ;)
[COMMENTER 1], I think you need some paxil. Most Muslims do not want to destroy America. Yes there are a group of crazy extremists that do, but you know what we have a bunch of crazy extremist Christians that live right here (hello KKK, Eric Robert Rudolph, Fred Phelphs, I am looking at you). We seem fine that The Westboro Baptist Church is allowed freedom of speech in the form of protesting military funerals, I don’t see why Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to have a center where they can interact with their community. In fact, I think that if more people met actual Muslims (rather than just hearing about them on TV) then they would see that “they” are just like “us.” We all want the same things, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (there is my shout out to [NAME DELETED]).
ME:
really? NAZIS. so all muslims are nazis now.
ohhhhhhh kay.
what new yorkers and americans? the ones who have been convinced by idiots who don’t know what they are talking about?
first of all, it’s a cultural center. second of all, there are 100 mosques in NY. third of all, FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
last i checked, the nazi’s [sic]3 weren’t a religion.
fourth of all, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS.
stop reading what the idiots are sending you by email. stop watching glenn beck.
and what [COMMENTER 3] said.
COMMENTER 3:
“giant mosque opposite Ground Zero”?!?! OMGWTFBBQ! It is gonna be 15 floors! That is not giant by any stretch of the imagination. Go to google maps, type in “45 Park Place, NYC, NY, and take a little walking tour of the area. There are many, many buildings much higher! 15 floors might be bigger than the 4-5 floors of Burlington Coat Factory presently there, but it will not dwarf anything in that area. Sheesh.
COMMENTER 1:
It’s not the “peace seeking” Muslims that try to murder Americans my friends. Have ANY of you ever met anyone that lost a family member in the 9-11 attacks? They seem to have a SLIGHTLY different outlook on things! Too bad things aren’t as simple as your outlook on this topic, but there are people that pose as peaceful to gain power, money and knowledge that will be used to kill Americans. WAKE UP!
COMMENTER 1:
Oh yes, and Muslim countries are renowned for human and women’s rights??? Oh wait… quite the opposite! They live in the bloody stone age! And that’s how many Muslims want the rest of the world, or they want to destroy it.
COMMENTER 3:
Well for full disclosure, I was on my way TO the WTC on the morning of 9/11/01. I ended up on a later train or I would have been in the WTC or at the very least in the tunnel. I was THERE watching (not on TV) when the 2nd plane hit. And I was standing across the river watching when the towers went down (again not on TV). I was stuck in Jersey City for a four days after the attack, I couldn’t go to my family because all roads into and out of the area where closed and all public transportation was not running. I went to a hotel to call my mom because nobody’s cell phone worked. Thank god I got through because my mom knew I was headed there and she thought I was dead cuz my cell kept going straight to voicemail. Two minutes after we walked in to the hotel it was evacuated by the FBI because it was over 6 stories and they were evacuating all tall buildings in the area as there were still 17 planes unaccounted for. I could smell the smoke and burnt flesh for months from my apartment and from my classes at NYU.
Oh, and I did lose a cousin through marriage (a firefighter). I also knew another firefighter who lived in my town who died. I also have friends who are muslim, so the only thing you said that I agree with is that things aren’t simple. But you know what? I bet YOU don’t have any personal experience with the attack on the WTC and that YOU don’t know any actual Muslim people.
[NO FURTHER RESPONSE FROM COMMENTER 1 ON THIS THREAD (It's hard to argue with COMMENTER 3 when you've copied your post from biebs knows where [the "my friends" and "WAKE UP!" are dead give-aways])]
[... BUT ON ANOTHER THREAD ON THE SAME FRIEND'S WALL...]
MY FRIEND POSTED A LINK TO THE CRACKED.COM POST:
No seriously. pls read.
FRIEND [quoting the Cracked.com post]:
“But one thing is definitely true: if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I don’t want to see that. Because unlike those with power and influence who would lie to you, I love America.”
COMMENTER 1:
Since I’m part of the SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT of American that oppose the Mosque being built withing 2.5 blocks (yeah I can read too) apparently I’m an idiot? Let’s go back to pre 9-11 thinking and just open the borders, let anyone that wants to support terrorism do it freely!
GREAT plan folks! Do any of you do any research on the people that planned this mosque? Ties to terrorisim? And when it’s complete the radical Muslims around the world will celebrate another victory.
Even if 100% of the people associated with this were truly peaceful, it is rude and insensitive to build it anywhere near Ground Zero.
Enjoy being so eliightened as you claim in your 32% minority. Since other disagree with you, they MUST be ignorant. Love the way you all think, it’s the real problem here! Disagree and everyone else is cave man with no idea about humanity. Hope your family and friends aren’t killed in the next terrorist attack. Oh yes, those radical Muslims are plotting all over the world this minute.
FRIEND:
[COMMENTER 1], i read the article you posted about the terrorist ties and the gist i got from it was the cordoba initiative has office space next to a guy who knows a guy who funds terrorism. ish.
and look, the radical muslims will probably celebrate. fine. they probably celebrate every time a soldier dies, a bomb goes off, an american chokes to death on a cheeseburger. let them party, i don’t really care. what i care about is non-radical muslim americans who have a right to their version of a YMCA.
FRIEND:
i really wish another person in the 68% would chime in (i know i have plenty of conservative friends!) so [COMMENTER 1] doesn’t fight the good fight alone always.
COMMENTER 4:
Thank you for posting this. I also posted a link to a video that pretty much said the same things. All I want is for the actual facts of what is really going on to get out. My credo is you have a right to your opinions, but you do not have a right to be wrong in your facts. If you have facts that differ from what this article and what the video present, please, by all means present them.
COMMENTER 5:
I didn’t read the article but 1. I will state I am a registered Republican. 2. That being said, I think the Mosque should be allowed to be built. It was going to be built before the attacks, I believe it is UNAMERICAN to tell them they can’t, they aren’t terrorists and frankly it is NOT on the Ground Zero site it is like one or two blocks away! Not only that but they have plans for a Sept 11th memorial inside the Mosque to pay tribute to the people who lost their lives!! 3. [COMMENTER 1], I don’t know you, but yes, you are an idiot.
COMMENTER 4:
It’s not even a Mosque, it’s a Community Center with a cooking school and a basketball court with the top 2 floors for worship. If you watch the video I put up a day or so ago, I think he does talk about the memorial they will have. It’s well worth watching it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0
ME [in response to my friend's point that she wished someone else would jump in to argue COMMENTER 1's point]:
i do too. i’m seriously stunned by [COMMENTER 1]‘s line of thinking. and i really want to know whether he gets his news from any sources other than fox news.
i have a friend who recently did a study on media intake. some very high percentage of fox news watchers only get their news from fox news. non-fox news watchers tend to get their news from a range of media… ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, CNN. of course fox news would call these outlets “drive by liberal media,” but really? it cannot be that every other media outlet is so biased and slanted EXCEPT holy fox news. that argument is a non starter. it’s what they tell you to get hooked on the fox news teat.
i seriously don’t think you or people like you are idiots for believing what Fox is selling. it’s what you know. it’s comfortable. a warm blanket of propaganda and fear that will keep you up at night and ready to shoot the first brown person you see. and then just check your email in the morning for the latest chain letter that will give you all the artillery you need to beat back us godless liberals with our liberty and justice for ALL talk.
but at a certain point, don’t you people get angry about being fed lies? THEY ARE PALPABLE LIES. THEY CAN BE VERIFIED THROUGH A WIDE VARIETY OF SOURCES.
so i really do not understand what would make a person entrench him or herself in a view, whether majority or not, that IS NOT LOGICAL.
it’s just not logical. it’s reactionary. and that’s why the neocon talking heads fill your heads with [it]. fear and paranoia. because they want you to believe their bullshit, so you continue watching their bullshit and they can go out and get book deals, and talking deals, and thriller jackets.
they do not know what they are talking about. Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. are you going to trust a guy with a blackboard and a piece of chalk and some fake eyeglasses. COME ON. you’re smarter than that.
and all you have to do is step outside your safe zone and go figure out what is going on.
moreover, stop asking questions to straw men and then wrapping up your non-argument by playing to emotion. “Did you do any research? Do you know their ties to Islam?” “Um, yeah, actually. Jon Stewart mentioned it the other day, and because I’m not going to rely on one (fake news) source for my information…, i googled it. if you have time to facebook, you have time to google.
“Hope your family and friends aren’t killed in the next terrorist attack.”
yeah, well i hope you and your family don’t get hit by a bus, which is MORE likely to happen than some guy running a cultural center — A GUY WHO APPEARED AND WAS WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS ON FOX NEWS — planning to attack THE WTC OR ANY OTHER BUILDING, especially now that everybody has their heads crammed up the cultural center’s cramhole.
from now on, i’m going to fight Fox News talking points with Comedy Central talking points. it’s a sad day in america when one can get more accurate news from a couple of comedians (colbert/stewart [weird, i usually say stewart/colbert]) than from people who call themselves journalists.
Oh and by the way? Fair and Balanced? Bullshit. Fox Corp. just gave 1 million dollars to the Republican [Governor's Association]
Please please for the love of God, Allah, Buddha, whatever, think for yourselves.
The way you are thinking is destroying this country. And when this country lays in ruins, you will have no one to blame but yourself.
i’m all mixed caps and crappy grammar because i’m so angry at what’s going on right now. and i’m shouty. but i’m always shouty.
COMMENTER 6:
Actually [COMMENTER 1], I suspect that the radical Muslims are celebrating the fact that Americans are so willing to strip other Americans of basic Constitutional rights because they’re afraid. I suspect that the uproar that this has caused is far more entertaining and delightful for them than the erection of any Mosque/Cultural Center. I suspect that the 62% majority is comprised of people asked the loaded question, “Do you think it’s ok to build a Mosque at Ground Zero?” I suspect most Americans, if they knew the facts, wouldn’t be so bent into knots over the issue. I know that my Mother, when I explained where the proposed Mosque was to be built, was fine with it. She didn’t think building it AT Ground Zero was a great idea, but 2 blocks away? Not an issue.
American and Americans are better than this…..
ME:
also, a friend of mind just confirmed that one of [COMMENTER 1]‘s comments was also posted on her wall. verbatim.
gotta think for yourself, peeps!
COMMENTER 6:
Radical Muslims want a lot of people dead. Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam that wants to build the Mosque/Community Center 2 blocks away from Ground Zero, is not a radical Muslim. Don’t believe me – Google him and read for yourself.
This isn’t about the human rights of other countries. That has nothing to do with THIS issue. That is horrible and deplorable, but it has nothing to do with the Mosque. Period. Though I do find it ironic that you would bring up the repression of others while suggesting we repress the rights of peaceful Muslim Americans. Interesting.
COMMENTER 3:
[COMMENTER 1]…it is absolutely true that crazy, radical muslim extremists want us dead. There are many people who are taught to hate others from birth by their parents (however that is nothing that is exclusive to muslims.) Many people hate gays, jews, black people, muslims, catholics, asians, mexicans, rich people, poor people, cookies (ok, I made that one up)…you get the picture. However the biggest flaw to your argument is that you seem to imply that all Muslims want us dead. You said it right first. The crazy radicals want us dead. MOST Muslims are NOT crazy radicals. Also if you look at any country that is religiously founded, their attitudes toward women suck. Because women are considered property in things like the Qu’ran and…the Bible. I accept the fact that both are products of the time in which they were written with its own propaganda for political reasons. (Oh man, and the mistranslations…don’t get me started).
What is happening here (today/present tense), is that “minds are warped and filled with hate” by the media. For the betterment of our country? Um, no…to sell advertising time. You know so that people tune in and see that sparkly commercial for floor cleaners, while getting their rage on (thanks [FRIEND] for that awesome phrase). Oh and the better a shows ratings, the more money the host gets. So basically we listen to people who really only care about ratings. They don’t care about Americans or American values (well expect for the wanting to make boat loads of money, that they care about). They don’t care about God or truth or liberty or the constitution, unless it is ways to exploit those things for their own benefit.
ME:
@[COMMENTER 3]- MARRY ME!
FRIEND:
her?4
What I found most interesting about this exchange is that COMMENTER 1 was pasting pre-made comments by whothefuckever, which he copied from wherethefuckever; some nonsense he likely got in a chain email, or found on <www.hereareyourcrazytalkingpointsforfacebook.com>. And as soon as I called him out, he went the “you must be stupid” route. I won’t copy what I said in response because it was pretty pretentious, and I even called myself out for being a dick by posting that particular response.
But all of this is simply to illustrate a point: People just grab “facts” from whatever Conservative Asshat Lab where facts are created out of thin air, and then post them and repost them until they have an air of “truthiness.” And next thing you know, SIXTY-EIGHT FUCKING PERCENT OF AMERICANS ARE IN AN UPROAR OVER A NON-ISSUE.
But, when you analyze it, and listen to people who are thinking rationally (like every commenter above except for 1), it is literally impossible to continue to believe that the cultural center is some sort of radical Islam slap in America’s face without conceding that you are illogical.
So, for those of you who don’t have the energy to argue with “these people,” but still find that you want to do something about the repeated brain explosions you are likely suffering, just come over here, copy the appropriate comment from above, head back over to Facebook, and slap it in the comment box. If they are going to copy and paste bullshit talking points, then at least those of us who still actually believe in all that liberty and justice for all crap can fight their bullshit talking points with smooth delicious FACTS and LOGIC.
THINK FOR YOURSELVES.
Angry Hulk Lady out.
1 If I’m wrong, I’ve got a fresh copy of the Daniel Day Lewis classic ready to go…
2 I can’t believe I had to [sic] myself…
3 Twice.
4 STEVE HOLT!
(Thanks, JBB!)
As a New Yorker working blocks from where the proposed “mosque” is, I am so sick of hearing about this I could scream. That it’s even a debate is a testament to the stupidity of our country and the hold that media bias has over otherwise thinking individuals. I’m glad someone mentioned 92Y as an example of what the community center would be. Early articles about the center mentioned it, but not any more. I’ve been to 92ndY several times to see concerts, and it’s fabulous.
In addition, it’s especially offensive to me that several of the protestors present today, and that are commenting on the debate via the Internet (how safe for you!) DO NOT LIVE HERE. Listen, I don’t come to your hillbilly town and tell you not to build a church, despite strongly disagreeing with what a lot of churches teach (a lot of which, I feel, IS about taking my agnostic rights away by throwing the 10 Commandments in my face everywhere I go). I’m also sick of hearing people say, “Well, it’s America! People are allowed to debate!” With that, I respond with the Sarah Palin logic: Well, just because you CAN doesn’t mean you SHOULD. It’s not a debate. It’s a building permit. The number of strip clubs in the area is evidence enough that none of these wackos gave a crap before, so why should they now? I feel like if someone wanted to build a Wiccan puppy-abortion clinic next to Ground Zero it wouldn’t be this crazy. I want to hand all of these protestors a copy of “Idiot America” by Charlie Pierce so they can get a vague idea of how manipulated they allow themselves to be by their fear.
Keith Olbermann said it best on his show by quoting Pastor Niemoller’s “First They Came . . ” speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0). What none of these people think of is, what if tomorrow (God forbid) a fundamentalist Christian blew up a building in the name of Jesus? And suddenly all of those Jews, Muslim, agnostics, and atheists in this country sick of being ruled by people wanting intelligent design taught in schools decided that enough was enough, and we had enough churches, and no more would be built? That seed is unknowingly being planted by the very people who could fall victim to if it they’re successful, and they refuse to see what a slippery slope they’re creating.
As a final argument, the center is supposedly going to have a pool. Who doesn’t want a pool?
Sorry for the rant. I’ve been reading about this stuff all day and now I’m on fire! ;-) Love the blog, keep up the good work!
no, don’t apologize! i loved it! besides, this is where rants go on vacation. we’ve got condos for rant.
(ha! i kill me sometimes.)
i’m famous! also, “commenter 1″ had something to say today on another link i posted!
I feel like there should be a kind of control question in all these polls. Something like, “Would taking a dump in your neighborhood water supply be a good idea, yes or no?”
Then we could say more clearly and succinctly: 98% of persons who think Obama is a Muslim also think taking a dump in their own water supply would be a good idea. Obviously, these people are idiots.
*Poll has 2% margin of error.
this is the best comment in the history of today.
Also, I’d like to know how many of the idiots describing the Community Center in question as a Mosque also refer to their local Young Men’s Christian Association as a Cathedral.
tl;dr: you hate america and mail letter-bombs to real americans and charge the postage to your clients. good luck!
What in the name of Benjamin Buttons is tl;dr, señor bacon?
“tl;dr” means “too long, didn’t read.”
tl; dr means “too long, didn’t read”. So, yes, Senor Bacon is an asshat.
it means “triceratops lost; dinosaurs retreat.” it’s not exactly on point, or en pointe (because have YOU ever seen a dinosaur do ballet?), but i feel it brings the issue around 360 degrees, and we can therefore allow kevin bacon to lead us to promised land. also, muslims sux and so do you’re clients!!!!three!!!!!!
hahaha.
i think you meant “muslins sux.”
[it's ok, commenters. i know the illustrious senor bacon. senor bacon is a friend of mine. and he, sir, is no senor bacon. for british eyes only!]
mister f!
‘Religious’ tolerance?
The privileges of being classed as religion should be withdrawn from Islam.
If Hitler had claimed that ‘Mein Kampf’ was dictated by God, would we be forced to tolerate the Nazi Party as a religion? Islam is first and foremost a mind-destroying, totalitarian political ideology that spreads through the Body Politic like a virus.
Winston Churchill gave the correct diagnosis over a century ago, when he compared Islam to a contagious virus or meme – ‘as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog’ http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/islam-murder-meme-and-rabies-of.html
Consequently, Islam should be reclassified from ‘RELIGION’ to ‘PUBLIC MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEM’ – a virulent contagious mental illness. It could then be contained by the methods used to prevent the spread of typhoid and other lethal epidemics: enforced exclusion and quarantime of carriers, eradication of foci of infection, immunization of the susceptible population etc.
Wow, that was as clear as the Ann on plain’s face.
I think George Michael is hiding Ann in the closet.
From who? The Nazis?
Mein Kampf (which translates to My Struggle) is so obviously an autobiography that your comparison is pretty ludicrous. PS – Hitler dictated the book, so for him to claim that God dictated it in your example is kind of funny (funny ironic, not funny haha), unless you are claiming that Hilter IS God (that for the record would be funny haha). Have you read Mein Kampf? What would God be dictating (if Hilter hadn’t actually dictated it)? Hitler’s early life and how he got started in politics? That makes no sense. Now a better comparison would be, if Moses claimed that the 10 Commandments were dictated by God…oh wait, that would negate your argument wouldn’t it? Just because you don’t like a religion’s doctrines doesn’t make it any less of a religion. A religion, by definition, is: the belief in and worship of a God (or set of gods); or a system of beliefs that is held to with ardor and faith. Thus, Islam is a religion by all senses of the word.
What I do think is that partisan politics is a virulent disease. So based on your example, Republicanism should be labeled as a mental illness/danger to society. I think I do like your examples on how to purge it from our country though. :D
I’m so glad you’ve written about this. I have some comments to make, but will have to wait until later — work is too jammed up today. But thank you for giving me a place where I can rant a little later. :-)
this is definitely rant central. :)
I made a comment about this on FB, the gist being this: The pleas for sensitivity re the Not-Ground-Zero Not-A-Mosque remind me of how my mom said that I should show sensitivity to her feelings by not dating people of color. I do feel for the people who lost loved ones, but not to the extent that I’m willing to accommodate their refusal to differentiate between different kinds of Muslims.
It’s not at all uncommon for someone to have a visceral negative reaction to characteristics that remind them of people who’ve victimized them in the past, and I think most of us feel sympathy for a person in that situation. The difference is that when, for instance, a woman who’s been raped by a man then fears all men, we (and she) generally agree that that’s problematic and should be addressed. And if, ten years later, she still were scared of all men, who wouldn’t consider that exceptionally dysfunctional and unhealthy? And this is in a person who was herself attacked, not someone who suffered indirectly. I am disgusted, though not surprised, at how we’re being asked to accommodate this paranoia (or bigotry, but I’m trying to be generous) as if it’s perfectly reasonable.
I also can’t help but *headdesk* at how many people are clamoring for sensitivity to the “9/11 families,” but were so quick to dismiss the needs of 9/11 responders who are now suffering health problems stemming from their service. This country talks big, but the moment you ask us to spend a little money we balk. And I’d wager those responders, at this point, need us more than the families do.
Nackles, that is dead on.
Also, I really like how this thread is part nonsense (::ahem:: the esteemed senor bacon), part crazy (::ahem:: Trencherbone– seriously, that comment doesn’t even warrant a response and yet jess and nackles provided a reasonable and rational response anyway), part arrested development quotes (anyung!), and part really great discussion.
that’s a lot of parts.
Ugh, got sucked into this exact same conversation on my brother’s FB page with some asshat he knew from grade school, whose posts were nearly the same… 68%, terrorist ties, blah blah blah. Every time he was presented with actual, cited facts, he got defensive and said we were attacking him for his opinion and that we didn’t believe in freedom of speech. Um, nope. Just don’t believe in letting obvious fallacies go unchecked.
Boy, he didn’t like it when I posted this – hehehe: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html I crack myself up.
Can ANYONE cite that magic 68% statistic and where the hell it came from? I’d love to know WTF 68% of people they asked to get that number. Something like “Which do you think is better, lollipops or building a Muslim Recruitment Madrasa Mosque-stravaganza with the bodies of dead firefighters?”
Google is your friend, folks! Also, nonprofits (like the Cordoba Institute) have to report the sources of all their income! You can look it up with an easy search on Guidestar, with a free login! You can look at the very 990 they file with the big, bad IRS! Fact-finding is fun!
nice! that’s why i wrote this post the way i did. easy smart soundbytes to refudiate the talking points of the palinites.
Ugh, I have been arguing this all over Facebook, mainly with friends of friends. I have also argued it with my own husband who said “They have the right but they shouldn’t do it”. Gah! I have taken this issue to heart and it can really get me ranty. I really do not understand how a cultural center can be in any way “offensive” in the first place. Even if it were simply a mosque rather than a cultural center how is that offensive? Can a place of prayer be in any way offensive to a site of tragedy a couple blocks away? Are the tithouses, gambling spots, bars, fast food joints, cheap souvenir sellers, etc. in the same area at all offensive to the supposed hallowed ground?
And yes, Fox News is just on a big smear campaign against the imam. This weekend I walked into the room and the TV was on some crappy Fox News morning show (blame the aforementioned husband) and they were in the middle of talking about him being on a State Dept.-sponsored trip around the Middle East. Of course they made it sound like he is out gallivanting around on the taxpayer’s dollar rubbing shoulders with extremists when it’s more likely he’s on a peaceful trip spreading his moderate message. It made me quite irate. I should have watched more so that I could argue against their followers but instead I turned on the Wii instead.
Now I’m all cranky about this again. Ugh.
i love the “even if it were a mosque” part. i understand that it’s a community center but i’m hesitant to argue that to my republican friends and condone their discrimination.
Here are my two-cents…even though they’ll likely be lost in the rant, I’ll keep ‘em simple.
When I first heard about these shenanigans a couple days ago (mind you, I am in New Zealand, and I purposely avoid the news), all I heard was “they are building a mosque at ground zero” from a kiwi local. My immediate response was to chuckle, b/c let’s be honest….if that were true, I’d say it was almost hilariously ironic. And without checking any facts or looking into the story, I could see why people would be upset about it. I personally don’t mind, but I could understand the frustration of people more personally affected by 9/11 or who are just generally more conservative than my non-conservative self.
However, having now read a bit more about this issue, and learning some of the facts (that it is not a mosque, and that it is also not being built on ground zero), I think it’s pretty ridiculous that anyone is even talking about it.
Clearly the media has transformed a SMALL city decision into a national (or world-wide) disaster-debate, and it clearly is only fueling the fire that divides the American people and religious intolerance. But frankly, “the mosque” is not an important topic in my opinion.
What I feel is important is that the media should be held more accountable for the crap that it throws out into the world, AND people should be coming together and getting this fired up about an issue that actually IS this important…like starving children or the unrest and genocide in Burma.
I understand the desire to try to enlighten people like ‘commenter 1′ who refuse to look at facts and think rationally, and who only want to further the divide and hatred of cultures, but is enlightenment even possible in this medium? Especially when these debates and comments are so heated and pointy? (Yes, I am using the word pointy, like pokey). Overall, it just sort of seems like a massive waste of time and energy that could be better put to use.
Maybe a better way to use all this energy would be to devise a plan to obliterate Fox News in all its forms. Or even more useful, to write a bill that holds media outlets responsible for delivering factual and objective news to everyone.
There was this thing called “The Fairness Doctrine.”
“The Fairness Doctrine was a policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was, in the Commission’s view, honest, equitable and balanced. The 1949 Commission Report served as the foundation for the Fairness Doctrine since it had previously established two more forms of regulation onto broadcasters. These two duties were to provide adequate coverage to public issues and that coverage must be fair in reflecting opposing views.[1] This doctrine was officially introduced in 1981 under the FCC chairman, Mark S Fowler.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine
Regan got rid of it, because of these sorts of ideas, which opposers of the Fairness Doctrine have: “The doctrine’s supporters seem not to appreciate just how much the broadcast world has changed since 1949. With the proliferation of informational resources and technology, the number of broadcast outlets available to the public has increased steadily. In such an environment, it is hard to understand why the federal government must police the airwaves to ensure that differing views are heard. The result of a reinstituted fairness doctrine would not be fair at all. In practice, much controversial speech heard today would be stifled as the threat of random investigations and warnings discouraged broadcasters from airing what FCC bureaucrats might refer to as “unbalanced” views.”
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1993/10/em368-why-the-fairness-doctrine-is-anything-but-fair
Time did an overview on it here:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880786,00.html
And more details here by a site that supports bringing it back:
“For citizens who value media democracy and the public interest, broadcast regulation of our publicly owned airwaves has reached a low-water mark. In his new book, Crimes Against Nature, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. probes the failure of broadcasters to cover the environment, writing, ?The FCC?s pro-industry, anti-regulatory philosophy has effectively ended the right of access to broadcast television by any but the moneyed interests.?”
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0212-03.htm
And, in full disclosure, I worked for a company that put out this documentary talking about how the demise of the Fairness Doctrine gave rise to conservative talk shows, and how that rise correlates with the rise of middle American becoming red states:
http://pipdocs.org/ (<–see Broadcast Blues, though for some reason the detailed site about the documentary is down. Maybe the doc died? That would make me sad…)
But the point is, there were protections in place, and they were taken away. And any efforts to try and reinstate them have been fought more adamantly than anything else Rush et al has spoken up against because they cut to the very heart of the matter, which is this: there is no longer any rule that says that what is said in a "news" show has to be factual. And thus Rush et al get to call themselves "newsradio".
And…yeah. So, there you go.
Notice I gave both sides of the debate, even though I clearly have a bias (and shared my bias). Because that is what you're supposed to do, as a journalist or journalist type–show full disclosure, give both sides and let the audience decide…
* “You hear “mosque” you think “mask” *
Swear2God, I wouldn’t even bother bringing this up if the coindink didn’t strike me so funny -
In the very first article I read about this issue, soon as I came to the word “mosque,” my first thought was of that Poe story-turned-film by Roger Corman, “Masque of the Red Death,” and I can’t reade “mosque” now without pronouncing it “masque”!
Ain’t that fucking hilarious?? I mean, I’m not exactly well-known for my sense of humor, b–
y’know, maybe I’d better go back & read this stuff before I throw in a comment, wouldn’t want to be clueless..
i read each and every word up in here. i was scared, there are a lot of words, and i’m pretty pissy about the mosque situation.. but i find all of you quite calming. i’m glad i came :) and added my two cents….
soooooooooo i had quite the civilized rant with a facebook chain status copy/paster on the actual chain status itself, but i can’t find it because she took it down. i’m going to go ahead and claim some kind of victory. but even within the actual status the FBCSC/P completely changed her view from “save the poor families of 9-11 victims” to “i’m afraid for the lives of muslims if this center is built.” quite the switcheroo but well played in avoidance of sounding like the hypocritical racist that she actually is. now folks the problem is that if we built it, OTHER haters will come (not her of course, she’s not racist) and possibly bomb the mosquesque construction because they just hate it so very much. those poor, poor muslims (she feels for them). it was all diffused by pointing out that if muslims are willing to risk their lives to build said mosquesque than they should be allowed to do so. but lets hope all americans can soon become as culturally sensitive as she seems to be (cough bullshit cough). i also threw in something about timothy mcveigh and how no one is persecuting his race or religion for his actions and other logical sticking points as well, naturally.
i am swimming in fox news-watching sheep and would have more fun to post, but i hid them from my news feed to prevent myself from schooling their dumb-asses and making enemies. it’s a small world up n here. i applaud those who fight the good fight though! and the copy/paste ammunition is nice too…
Alright, I’m back and fully apprised of the post and its subsequent discussion.
I think the “mosque” joke would have worked better had it appeared much further up, but what ya gonna do?
ABL, like Katie (great comment), I’ve read more than enough information regarding this center in the last 3 days to last a lunchtime, provided it properly digests without that acid reflux shit, unlike a fire-laced taco some now dead asshole slipped me a week or so back but anyway
I loved reading your perspective, it really moved me (not like a fire-laced taco so–) in a way that brings a smile to my face, because the relevant points are made in a fashion so unique to you that – I don’t know, seems to hit so many of us in just the right way that we can temper our own disgust because of your doing the yelling for us.
Now have I distracted you with flowery praise equal to the dismissal of ‘bacon’s shockingly compelling accusation? To wit–
You charging me postage to help you mail letter-bombs, woman?? And if so, when do I, a faithful “client,” get a say in to exactly WHO these postal packages are sent to? HUH??!!
You got some ‘splainin to do
Sorry, just realized I forgot to mention Nackles – I love you, your comment was brilliant; Tammy, you once again curl my toes at your lovely mastery of the language; and Sydneypup, you’re a foreigner and your opinion don’t count, even if it’s about as close to mine as mine is.
‘Night all
Hahahha. Syndey is an American living in New Zealand… and a good friend of mine, but yeah…her opinion doesn’t count.
;-)
i think i see what’s happening here…
obama is building a mosque on ground zero, which is besides the point, because the liberals are plotting another 911 style attack, and using this as a distraction.
all liberals are muslim, they were infected with it through the ricin mail attacks of ’01.
no republicans were infected because they are a superior race, and their faith in jesus christ has given them immunity (the power of christ compels you!).
my parents who are muslim are liberals and this proves most if not all of the above.
my parents are part of a super secret sleeper cell, as are most of my friends (including myself).
when muslim headquarters calls on the phone and speaks the code word “hummus”, we will fall into action, and build a big mosque bomb which will actually blow up the entire state of new york (thus finishing the job we started).
if we obama doesn’t build this mosque, the whole plan falls apart.
sorry guys, but for once, fox news got it right…
can’t pull a fast one on them, they’re just too smart!
-r
I’m surprised your family hasn’t hit the road by now. My parents are considering moving to Belize, and they’re just an interracial couple. Thank your parents for taking some of the heat off mine. ;)
seriously, i’ve reached the point where the only way to deal with this banter is an attempt at humor.
it’s not funny though.
bigotry is never funny.
bigotry endorsed by news corporations, a major political party and politicians with power and control over the laws governing our country, is even less funny.
common sense is gone, and attempting to reason with unreasonable people is pointless.
once people realize this, all the intelligent people in the country will leave because once they understand that reasoned discourse will never happen, and that the majority of this country is full of uninformed and uneducated people making the decisions that rule our lives.
i am among those people involved in the growing “brain drain” of the united states.
i left because the decisions made by our populous are atrocious, the issues that people are finding important, the constant neighing of jackassery, the majority of people being shepherded into being blinding themselves about serious issues, and focusing on non-issues is disheartening at best, and scary at worst.
angry black lady asked me to get involved in this discussion, but i don’t really see the point, people’s minds won’t change, their arguments won’t change, their arguments won’t cease to be riddled with logical fallacies, and i would rather have positive intellectually elitist conversations in the comfort of my own living room in a country far far away where people care about real issues and can’t be affected by the 68% of catchphrase idiots in america.
-r
Ramy,
maybe you made the “point” just by acknowledging the uselessness of having to make one.
people’s minds and argument’s AREN’T going to change, not on this subject. it’s like writing 500 different verses to a song you write – it gets to the point that you’re sick enough of the goddam melody alone to bother trying to add one specific “point”: I’ve heard it, you’ve heard it, the same tired melody over & over & over like the ‘Beers on the Wall’ chant-
just take a verse down, pass it around, 499 other bullshit verses left on the wall.
ABL, I’ll truly be devastated if you take the slightest offense to the advice/quote I’m about to stupidly offer, but we’ve got so much more, immediate bullshit to address than this media-hyped debate that encourages dissention where sometimes it isn’t really necessary:
“That’ll do, pig.”
Mr. Prez is getting our combat troops out of Iraq, yo! Let’s concentrate on the shit we were left to deal with after bush, like MY President is currently doing.
Remember, I didn’t think our country was going to survive the last admin & wanted to take the ‘big sleep’ back in 2008; it may not be moving as quickly as we’d hoped, but it is a Geeyaawwwdamned helluva lot more progress (hey, any progress at all) than that country-fucking DUMBASS BUSH ever gave a second thought to accomplishing.
I’m a 50-year-old fat balding white guy – I’m giving our new President EVERY FUCKING BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT because he is absolutely incapable of fucking up more than bush & his crew did.
I love AngryBlackLady partly because she’ll let me post MY anger, but mostly because reading her’s is such a sublime experience. If I didn’t believe in a better tomorrow, I wouldn’t bother seeking out beautiful people who remind me of why God made us – we need this one around as long as she’s able to give a damn.
no offense taken at all. in fact, that’s why i wrote a post about paris hilton today. i’ve said all i have to say.
ok that’s a lie. i’ve said some of what i have to say. but for now, i’m done with this issue. these people are stooges. and what do we do when confronted with stooges?
we laugh and hope they make each other fall down and go boom.
I have an interwebz girl crush on you, ABL. Full on, Pajiba-style Interwebz Girl Crush. **swoon**
Yo, stand back girlfriend – give the lovely ABL some breathing room to contemplate the pleasures this middle-aged (yet career-minded) man-chunk could offer.
She’s already had the luxury of reading my thinly-disguised ‘love connections’ under the pretense that I have any other motive besides tappin’ that fine-ass liberal chick before taking down her entire ‘whacky idea’ site and exposing her to some cool conservatism-
your silly “Girl Crush” is no match for my intoxicating words of — innuendoness, if you will; peddle your whorish wares elsewhere, foolish wench.
Yikes, Tony! You do know that the “tea” served here at ABL is “long island” style and is never served in a bag…so careful how much you drink at one time, k?
Both of you, stop web-groping my friend!
::breaks up crazy web-dance-grope-cluster group with awkward, boring commentary::
Who are you *really* Mr. Maxwell? Hmmm….?! Shenanigans are afoot, methinks! I shall get to the bottom of this. As soon as I find my houndstooth cap.
I am very excite! I haven’t returned to that Pajiba thread because I’m afraid if I do, I’ll get all shouty again.
ABL, right now I am the fucking angriest, head-smacking, screaming-at-the-walls, pathetic bitch I wouldn’t want you or any other life form seeing in person.
I “spunt” (ever watch ‘Maury’?) almost two muthafuckin’ hours answering your question, until a magic extra finger hit some keys I couldn’t point out in a police station lineup that simply — wiped my fucking brilliant shit out..
So I’m telling myself, “don’t lose your shit, man, not tonight while you got a good buzz going on,”
so I head back to the homey page & click the the ‘contact me’ line hoping to express to you personally this most upsetting situation for me that the rest of your readers didn’t have to suffer, only to get that fuc817`254987cking ‘Explorer’ bullshit that’s never delivered an email for me in the 15 goddam years I’ve been trying!!
In short, no “Shenanigans” or mystery here – if you haven’t found your cap, you got my email address – I’d appreciate the opportunity to personally bore you with a very important request that I hope you would share with all after you’ve properly distilled it into a comprehensible translation that I can’t do myself
‘Lady’, scratch that last request / tirade – have a gay ol’ time in Palm Springs and re-charge your ‘angry’ batteries in the meantime.
You do way too much work on this site for me to deprive everyone else of your output.
I’ll find the correct way to address this “request” for everyone to comprehend – for now, suffice it to say I know a couple dozen of the most wonderful, witty, professional, personable and delightful black ladies I’ve had the pleasure of working with here in Columbia, SC for many years, and I want to introduce all of them by name, especially the ones who may not already be regular readers of this site.
I think I’m too damn late by now, but I was really hoping to contribute a lot of extra ‘votes’ for your website before the deadline. I’m sorry I didn’t act sooner.
Enjoy yourself, ABL!