Jezebel vs. Jon Stewart

Jezebel: 0; Jon Stewart: 1

The story of the “feud” between Jezebel and The Daily Show is making its way around the blogosphere today. For those who don’t know, a Jezebel author Irin Carmon published a piece last week, the premise of which was that The Daily Show, like most late night comedy shows, is a boys’ club, and that while The Daily Show is a darling among progressives, it is failing in the equal opportunity (for women) department.

A recent Slate article written by Emily Gould (who discloses that she used to work for Gawker Media which owns Jezebel) says the following about Jezebel’s premise that The Daily Show has “a woman problem”:

Jezebel writer Irin Carmon’s argument is essentially this: “Former videogame show host” Olivia Munn may soon become the show’s first new female correspondent in seven years, but her potential hiring is nothing to celebrate, because, while she’s a woman, she’s not the right kind of woman. She has hosted G4′s Attack of the Show for four years, and she has written a book. But, per Carmon, “her previous career path has led some”—meaning, I guess, Carmon and Jezebel commenters—”to criticize The Daily Show for hiring someone better known for suggestively putting things in her mouth on a video game show … and being on the covers of Playboy and Maxim than for her comedic chops.” Included as a link is a previous Jezebel post that featured video of Munn jumping into a giant pie while wearing a French maid costume.

Gould’s article also discusses the importance of page views to Jezebel authors, suggesting that in order to keep getting paid by Gawker Media, Jezebel authors have to garner consistently high page views:

As of this writing, Carmon’s post has generated almost 1,000 comments and nearly 90,000 page views. It’s a prime example of the feminist blogosphere’s tendency to tap into the market force of what I’ve come to think of as “outrage world”—the regularly occurring firestorms stirred up on mainstream, for-profit, woman-targeted blogs like Jezebel and also, to a lesser degree, Slate’s own XX Factor and Salon’s Broadsheet. They’re ignited by writers who are pushing readers to feel what the writers claim is righteously indignant rage but which is actually just petty jealousy, cleverly marketed as feminism. These firestorms are great for page-view-pimping bloggy business. But they promote the exact opposite of progressive thought and rational discourse, and the comment wars they elicit almost inevitably devolve into didactic one-upsmanship and faux-feminist cliché. The vibe is less sisterhood-is-powerful than middle-school clique in-fight, with anyone who dares to step outside of chalk-drawn lines delimiting what’s “empowering” and “anti-feminist” inevitably getting flamed and shamed to bits. Paradoxically, in the midst of all the deeply felt concern about women’s sexual and professional freedom to look and be however they want, it’s considered de rigueur to criticize anyone, like Munn, who dares to seem to want to sexually attract men.

When Jezebel was founded, it proposed itself as an explicit alternative to traditional women’s magazines. As any first-year women’s studies major will tell you, these glossies make money by exploiting women’s insecurities. The editorial content creates ego-wounds (“Do you smell bad? Why isn’t he into you?”) that advertisers handily salve by offering up makeup and scented tampons. But Jezebel must also sell ad space, and its founders knew that they are marketing to a generation that knew the score about how they’d been marketed to in the past, which meant those old-fashioned print tactics weren’t going to work. Page views are generated by commenters who are moved to speak out, then revisit the comment thread endlessly to see how people have responded to their ideas. Ergo, more provocative posts tend to generate far more page views, and the easiest way for Jezebel writers to be provocative is to stoke readers’ insecurities—just in a different way.

Instead of mimicking the old directly anxiety-making model—for example, by posting weight-loss tips and photos of impossibly thin models like a traditional women’s magazine—Jezebel and the Slate and Salon “lady-blogs” post a critique of a rail-thin model’s physique, explaining how her attractiveness hurts women. The end result is the same as the old formula—women’s insecurities sell ads. The only difference is the level of doublespeak and manipulation that it takes to produce that result. Recently, Broadsheet’s Tracy Clark-Flory elicited 32 mostly sycophantic comments by closing a post that rehashed a news story about a controversy over a model’s age by saying that it was “skin-crawling” that a mother of a 15-year-old model was quoted as saying that “age is irrelevant if you’re beautiful.” And XX recently got in on the Olivia Munn debate with a post about how Munn isn’t funny enough to be on the show. The writer cited an interview with Munn but no examples from any of the 374 episodes of G4′s Attack of the Show that Munn hosted between 2006-10.

It’s certainly important to have honest, open conversations about the issues that reliably rake in comments and page views—rape, underage sexuality, and the cruel tyranny of the impossible beauty standards promoted by most advertisers and magazines (except the ones canny enough to use gently lit, slightly rounder, older, or more ethnic examples of “true beauty”). But it may just be that it’s not possible to have these conversations online. On the Web, writers tend to play up the most jealousy- and insecurity-evoking aspects of controversy, and then anonymous commenters—who bear no responsibility for the effects of their statements—take the writers’ hints to any possible extreme. It’s just how the Internet works.

At the same time, many posts on these sites aren’t consciously written with the twisted mess of intentions I just described. Probably many of the writers feel that their work is helping women by exposing sexism and getting important women’s issues onto their radar. But especially for Jezebel writers, whose page-view-generating skills are a matter of public record, and whose careers are dependent on maintaining their stats, the pressure to continuously hit “outrage world” topics must be intense. As I write this, two of the five top stories on Jezebel have to do with weight loss: “Isn’t It Time We Called ‘Curvy Models’ Simply ‘Models?’” and “Lily Allen’s Face Not Thin Enough For British Elle?” In the comments sections, readers are responding with naked bitterness: “The thin and pretty are like rich people. They are freely given advantages they already have,” says sensitivitycop. NewWaveBatMitzvah chimes in with “I’m just glad that finally someone is paying attention to skinny women with large breasts. It’s high time they get out from living in obscurity in the shadows where they cry themselves to sleep with tears of sorrow and loneliness.”

On and on it goes, as commenters click again and again on the same post to follow the conversation, generating the traffic that enables the site to sell ad space. Right now, the ad alongside those headlines is for Cheetos.

First, let me say that I agree that there is a dearth of female comedy writers and that somebody needs to do something about that shit. (Call me!)

Second, I want to express my contempt for the article — it managed to turn what could have been a great exposé on the marginalization of female comedians and comedic writers into one more punchline that men can use in their bullshit “but women just aren’t funny” arsenal.

More than that, however, the Jezebel minions, like some sort of blogospheric cult have jumped to Jezebel’s defense on Slate and other websites, seemingly without taking a critical look at the article itself.

The article was terrible. It was poorly researched, based on unfounded assumptions, and, seemingly, the author did not even interview any women working at The Daily Show to find out what their take on the situation is. (One would think that the current staff would have more relevant details about whether or not Jon Stewart is a sexist prick than those women who, for whatever reason, no longer work for The Daily Show.)

The full Jezebel article that started this shitstorm can be read here, but I want to quote snippets of it to make a point:

The Daily Show is many things: progressive darling, alleged news source for America’s youth, righteous media critique. And it’s also a boys’ club where women’s contributions are often ignored and dismissed.

If Olivia Munn, the former videogame show host introduced to Daily Show viewers three weeks ago, survives her tryout, she’ll be the first new female correspondent on the show in seven years. With the notable exception of Samantha Bee, who’s been on since 2001, female correspondents have been a short-lived phenomenon. As fiercely liberal and sharp-eyed an observer as Jon Stewart can be, getting women on the air may be his major blind spot.

Television comedy, and late night in particular, can be cutthroat and transitory, and no one is particularly surprised when the men who host these shows turn out to be not very nice guys, as anyone who cared to pay attention to the David Letterman fall-out could see. Women are universally scarce, whether in the writer’s room or on the air. And the environment on The Daily Show was arguably worse in the Craig Kilborn era: Back in 1997, the then-host was suspended after telling Esquire,”To be honest, [co-creator] Lizz [Winstead] does find me very attractive. If I wanted her to blow me, she would.” (Winstead quit not long afterward.) Nowadays there may be less overt frat-boy humor, but that doesn’t mean the institutionalized sexism is gone.

Given its politics and the near-universal adoration with which it’s met, the current iteration of The Daily Show is held to a different standard by the viewing public. But behind the scenes, numerous former female staffers tell us that working there was often a frustrating and alienating experience. [Behind what scenes? You didn't talk to any current female employees!]

“What I was told when I was hired is that they have a very hard time finding and keeping women, and that I was lucky to get a one year contract,” says Lauren Weedman, a comedian and writer who worked on the show as an on-air correspondent from 2001-2002.

This mentality arguably goes straight the top ["arguably"? How about "I'm making this shit up because I don't have any facts"]: The host and executive producer’s onscreen persona is lovable mensch, but one former executive on the show tells us “there’s a huge discrepancy between the Jon Stewart who goes on TV every night and the Jon Stewart who runs The Daily Show with joyless rage.” [Could it be the former executive who, in the very next paragraph, quit the show because Stewart wasn't happy with her work? Could it? Could it? Hmm?] (A representative for Comedy Central said they would be unable to participate in this story.)

The story of Stewart throwing a newspaper or script at the show’s co-creator and executive producer Madeleine Smithberg out of displeasure with her work is an oft-told one among Daily Show veterans. Not long after the continued tension led Smithberg to quit in 2003, sources say Stewart refused to allow her onstage to accept the show’s Emmy, even though her work contributed to the win. [Cheap shot; citing one example of Jon Stewart's displeasure with the work of one of the show's producers and his subsequent refusal to allow her onstage (before or after she quit?) because he was unhappy with her work as irrefutable evidence that Jon Stewart has "a lady problem." Great argument! You win!]

The article goes on to relay the statements of former The Daily Show staffers, the most credible of whom is Stacy Greenrock Woods (credible only insofar as I remember her and I remember liking her… see? I admit when I’m making shit up!):

Stacey Grenrock Woods was on Stewart’s show from 1999-2003, longer than any other correspondent besides Bee. (She later chronicled the experience in her book, I, California.) She told me, “Did I feel like there was a boy’s club there? Yeah, sure. Did I want to be part of it? Not necessarily. So it kind of goes both ways.” [Is anyone surprised that late night comedy writers constitute a boys' club? Does this mean, in and of itself that Jon Stewart has a "lady problem"? No. No it does not.]

This mutual disdain is perhaps why so few women stuck around, whether by choice or otherwise. [Yes, "perhaps" that is why few women stuck around, or perhaps you're pulling shit directly out of your ass in lieu of actual research.]

Overall, The Daily Show’s environment was such that many women felt marginalized. [Who are these "many women"? What are their names? Their positions? You've mentioned, like, three women! Meanwhile, other women, like Samantha Bee and Allison Silverman are (snarkily, in my opinion) deemed "defenders" of the Daily Show and mentioned at the bottom of the article. I guess their views aren't as important because they're just defending Daddy Stewart.]

The article then goes on to criticize The Daily Show for their latest hire: Olivia Munn. And here’s where it gets fucked up.

If you search through the archives of Jezebel, you’ll see that Olivia Munn has taken a lot of shit in the Jezebel comment section–a lot of anti-feminist shit at the hands of women who call themselves feminists. There have been references to her sexual appeal as the reason for her getting the job, cries of “but I just don’t think she’s funny!” (as if these predominantly tightwad commenters are the final word on what is or isn’t funny), and references to the way she sexily eats a hot dog (with a video of said hot dog-eating taking up prime space in the article). That Olivia… she’s such a slut! She’s too hot to be funny! But we’re feminists! We can’t say that!

So, whatever, Jezzies. You clearly know something that The Daily Show producers don’t know. They should have just called you and asked for your opinion as to whether or not Munn is funny enough to be on the show, or whether she’s too sexy to be on the show, or whether she’s going to be passed around the show like Marilyn Monroe at the White House.

In response to what is, in my view, a hit piece by an author who had an axe to grind and didn’t bother to conduct adequate research, women who actually work at The Daily Show struck back today in an open letter:

Women of The Daily Show Speak

Dear People Who Don’t Work Here,

Recently, certain media outlets have attempted to tell us what it’s like to be a woman at The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. We must admit it is entertaining to be the subjects of such a vivid and dramatic narrative. However, while rampant sexism at a well-respected show makes for a great story, we want to make something very clear: the place you may have read about is not our office.

The Daily Show isn’t a place where women quietly suffer on the sidelines as barely tolerated tokens. On the contrary: just like the men here, we’re indispensable. We generate a significant portion of the show’s creative content and the fact is, it wouldn’t be the show that you love without us.

So, who are the women of The Daily Show?

If you think the only women who help create this show are a couple of female writers and correspondents, you’re dismissing the vast majority of us. Actually, we make up 40% of the staff, and we’re not all shoved into the party-planning department (although we do run that, and we throw some kick-ass parties). We are co-executive producers, supervising producers, senior producers, segment producers, coordinating field producers, associate producers, editors, writers, correspondents, talent coordinators, production coordinators, researchers, makeup artists, the entire accounting and audience departments, production assistants, crew members, and much more. We were each hired because of our creative ability, our intelligence, and above all, our ability to work our asses off to make a great show.

Is it hard to work at The Daily Show?

Absolutely. When it comes to what makes it onto the show, competing ideas aren’t just hashed out between the faces you see on camera or the names that roll under the “writers” credits. Jokes and concepts come from our studio department, our field department, our graphics department, our production department, our intern department, and our control room. Jon’s rule is: the strongest idea and the funniest joke win every single time, no matter who pitches it–woman or man, executive producer or production assistant. And of course none of these jokes and ideas would get to air without the layers of production talent working behind the scenes. The fairness of our workplace makes competition tough and makes the show better.

So if it’s so challenging, why have we stayed for two, five, ten, fourteen years? Because it’s challenging. We feel lucky to work in a meritocracy where someone with talent can join us as an intern and work her way up to wherever her strengths take her. But also because it’s an environment that supports our being more than just our jobs. The Daily Show (to an extent few of us have seen elsewhere) allows us the flexibility to care for our families, pursue our own projects, cope with unexpected crises, and have lives outside the show.

Also… are you kidding? It’s The Daily Show for Christ’s sake. You ask some stupid questions, imaginary interlocutor.

What’s Jon Stewart really like?

Jon’s not just a guy in a suit reading a prompter. His voice and vision shape every aspect of the show from concept to execution. The idea that he would risk compromising his show’s quality by hiring or firing someone based on anything but ability, or by booking guests based on anything but subject matter, is simply ludicrous.

But what’s he really like? Well, for a sexist prick, he can be quite charming. He’s also generous, humble, genuine, compassionate, fair, supportive, exacting, stubborn, goofy, hands-on, driven, occasionally infuriating, ethical, down-to-earth and–a lot of people don’t know this–surprisingly funny (for a guy brimming with “joyless rage”). How else to describe him? What’s the word that means the opposite of sexist? That one.

In any organization, the tone is set from the top. Since taking over the show, Jon has worked hard to create an environment where people feel respected and valued regardless of their gender or position. If that’s not your scene, you probably wouldn’t like it here. We happen to love it.

And so…

And so, while it may cause a big stir to seize on the bitter rantings of ex-employees and ignore what current staff say about working at The Daily Show, it’s not fair. It’s not fair to us, it’s not fair to Jon, it’s not fair to our wonderful male colleagues, and it’s especially not fair to the young women who want to have a career in comedy but are scared they may get swallowed up in what people label as a “boy’s club.”

The truth is, when it comes down to it, The Daily Show isn’t a boy’s club or a girl’s club, it’s a family – a highly functioning if sometimes dysfunctional family. And we’re not thinking about how to maximize our gender roles in the workplace on a daily basis. We’re thinking about how to punch up a joke about Glenn Beck’s latest diatribe, where to find a Michael Steele puppet on an hour’s notice, which chocolate looks most like an oil spill, and how to get a gospel choir to sing the immortal words, “Go f@#k yourself!”

Love,

Teri Abrams-Maidenberg, Department Supervisor, 11 years

Jill Baum, Writers’ Assistant, 4 years

Samantha Bee, Correspondent, 7 years

Alison Camillo, Coordinating Field Producer, 12 years

Vilma Cardenas, Production Accountant, 14 years

Lauren Cohen, Production Assistant, 1 year

Jocelyn Conn, Executive Assistant, 4 years

Kahane Cooperman, Co-Executive Producer, 14 years

Pam DePace, Line Producer, 14 years

Tonya Dreher, Avid Editor, 4 years

Kristen Everman, Production Assistant, 2 years

Christy Fiero, Production Controller, 13 years

Jen Flanz, Supervising Producer, 13 years

Hallie Haglund, Writer, 5 years

Kira Hopf, Senior Producer, 14 years

Jenna Jones, Production Assistant, 2 years

Jessie Kanevsky, Department Coordinator, 5 years

Jill Katz, Producer/Executive in Charge of Production, 4 years

Hillary Kun, Supervising Producer, 9 years

Christina Kyriazis, TelePrompter Operator, 14 years

Jo Miller, Writer, 1 year

Jody Morlock, Hair & Make-Up Artist, 14 years

Olivia Munn, Correspondent, 1 month

Lauren Sarver, Associate Segment Producer, 5 years

Kristen Schaal, Correspondent, 2 years

April Smith, Utility, 14 years

Patty Ido Smith, Electronic Graphics, 12 years

Sara Taksler, Segment Producer, 5 years

Elise Terrell, Production Coordinator, 6 years

Adriane Truex, Facility Manager, 12 years

Juliet Werner, Researcher, 1 year

Kaela Wohl, Wardrobe Stylist/Costumer, 2 years

PS. Thanks for the list of funny women. Our Nanas send us a ton of suggestions about “what would make a great skit for The John Daley Show.” We’ll file it right next to those.

PPS. Thanks to the male writers who penned this for us.

Um, what’s the word the kids are saying today? Oh yeah… PWNED.

Jezebel’s response?

I just wish the show had agreed to answer questions or make anyone available to talk when I approached them for comment before the piece was published.

Oh, please. I won’t pretend to know how much time passed between the author penning and publishing her column and asking The Daily Show for comment. But you know what? You’re not the New York Times, yo. You’re a blog. One of the most popular blogs frequented by women, sure. But still, you’re a fucking blog. And to those who take issue with Jon Stewart’s terse response– “Jezebel thinks I’m a sexist prick!”

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart Mon – Thurs 11p / 10c
Blame
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor Tea Party

– and claim that you wished he’d taken you more seriously,

Jon, I think Jezebel merits more than the brief phrase thrown into a frenzied rant.

The piece was written because a lot of the Jezebel community watches and likes TDS. And yes, we understand that your humor is not meant to be politically correct, and yes we like that about your show.

We don’t like that far fewer women than men have had a chance to be part of your show. Before brushing Jezebel off and presuming our ideas of feminism are completely unreasonable, I hope you will reflect on the reason this came up in the first place.

I say, get right on over yourself.

Jon Stewart is a comedian. The writers who write for him are comedians. Did you really expect to have a Henry Gates/Sergeant Crowley type pow-wow where you’d get to express how Jon Stewart gives you a case of the feminist sads and makes your vagina feel marginalized?

Render unto me a break already.

Do you know who feels marginalized on Jezebel? ME. And lots of other women–both of color and of no color.

Jezebel, you are an insular community of predominantly white middle to upper-class feminists who tout themselves as feminists, and high five themselves for being evolved, but really, you don’t want to hear what anyone with a differing opinion has to say. If you did, you would open up your comment section to everyone.

So here’s my beef:

  • You are self-righteous–you require people to “audition” to comment and review your entirely ridiculous set of rules before doing so– thus virtually ensuring that a comment from anyone with a differing opinion will never see the light of day. I recall the first time I wanted to take issue with a post. After trying to figure out how to post a fucking comment and then realizing that I couldn’t post any comment until after my audition comment had been reviewed by whothefuckever, I said, “Fuck this noise!” and went to read another blog that doesn’t institute such ridiculous policies. (And by the way, considering your self-proclaimed feminist blog status, you might want to consider that there are a lot of women (and men) out there who don’t have regular access to the internet. These women (and men) may have something to say about your blog posts and can’t wait around to be vetted by your moderators. So, there’s that.)

And sure, I understand that it isn’t your comment policy, but rather that of Gawker Media, but in reality, to those of us who do not relish giving Jezebel its daily reach around, your indignation and self-righteousness about insularity falls on deaf ears.

  • You routinely ignore issues affecting women of color (notwithstanding your hiring of Latoya Peterson of Racialious to do a guest blog post here and there, and for the record, I regularly read Racialicious***). You rarely have posts about celebrities of color. Your main message is that models are too skinny, society pressures women into looking pretty and losing weight, and rape is bad. Real deep stuff there.

As for The Daily Show, well, they are doing pretty well over there when it comes to diversity–Wyatt Cenac, Larry Whitmore, and Aasif Mandvi. Not to mention Samantha Bee and Kristen Schall. Could there be more women? Of course. But where the article failed is that instead of taking a look at how to get more women into the so-called “boys’ club,” it took the easy way out: Jon Stewart must be a tyrant, because these fired employees said so! ZOMG!

I could ramble on about this for a while (or, for longer than I already have), but frankly, I’ve got shit to do. So, I want to close with a comment from Jezebel reader “glorptok” that sums up exactly my feelings about the article:

“I know this will just sound like a rant by someone who hates to see his “hero” criticized, but I honestly think your case against Stewart was really thin but constructed to feel like there’s more evidence against him than there actually is.

First off the Daily Show has gone through a LOT of correspondents. When they have an opening, they try out many newbies and they are quick to dump the ones who don’t make a strong impression. They are obviously looking for charismatic correspondents who can think quickly in uncomfortable situations, exploit opportunities, get excellent footage, etc. The high standards they have is the reason so many former correspondents have become TV and movie stars – they look for performers who are better than funny. Stewart has gone though a parade of stand-ups, writers, UCB members, and the like in his search for the next Colbert or Carrel. His high standards disqualify 75% of the performers they’ve had over the last decade, male or female. Sooner or later, it seems that most of their correspondents get cut, as do many of their writers.

I also believe that a lot of the people who got sacked 8 or 9 years ago may have originally been hired for the less funny and consistent pre-Stewart version of the Daily Show (which had female producers). Maybe the firing of some of these women can be attributed to the fact that the new producers were clearing out the staff they considered dead wood (that’s what happened to the lovable Kent Jones, ex-Daily Show writer and current contributor to the Rachel Maddow show).

Regarding criticisms that the show is male dominated; it seems to me that the Daily Show has responded by actively searching for women and persons of color. Actually, I think that Samantha Bee, Aasif Mandvi, and maybe even Wyatt Cenac would be gone by now if they were white men, because – even though they are funny people and good writers – they don’t tend to nail their routines with the energy and timing that an Ed Helms or John Oliver would.

It certainly isn;t true that women aren’t funny, but it is true that specific shows have specific comedic tones and you can’t shoehorn in a different perspective just to make them feel more politically correct. I assume that women who are fluent in the show’s type of humor are welcome: Merrill Markoes wanted; Nora Ephrons, not so much. The comedy of the Daily Show has a distinct personality and rhythm and Stewart’s ability to reliably maintain that tone is part of the reason for the show’s success. Your graduate student’s ideal of an all-inclusive comedy program sounds good in theory, but could only work if all involved shared a comedic vision (comedy, by the way, generally wants to be politically incorrect as it is, so it’s a miracle the Daily Show maintained the levels of respectfulness and dignity that it has). Is the show’s tone overly masculine? I don’t know, but it certainly has a clear personality; besides a more feminine tone, the show could also be sillier, or angrier, or gentler, or racier, or cornier, or more conservative, or whatever – they could make Carrot Top, Erma Bombeck, or Dane Cook correspondents, but they won’t because they strive to give the show a consistent voice.

I don’t believe that voice necessarily excludes women, but I think it probably excludes highly personal material (I was a chubby 5th grader) like the ex-correspondent with a “damaged” persona, and it definitely excludes comedians who produce B-level remotes (which, if memory serves, was part of the problem with some of your other informants).

Getting down to the nitty gritty, it seems to me that the real impetus for your article was the outrage over the “smart” Daily Show hiring “slutty” Olivia Munn. I was also surprised by that at first, but then I considered that the Daily Show has tried out many unconventional correspondents in the past – we just don’t tend to remember them because most of them got the hook pretty quickly. Still, it’s that process leads to the occasional discovery of a John Hodgeman.

Finally, I’d like to point out one of your article’s cheapest devices – depicting Stewart throwing newspaper or script pages at his old female producer when he was frustrated with the quality of the show. You obviously included that at the top of the story specifically to create a sense that the show has a history of hostility toward women. It seems to me that comedy writers’ rooms are absolutely notorious for that kind of tension and behavior. I have no doubt the producer in question did her share of chewing out and humiliating her subordinates during her years there (though she may never have put others at risk of dangerous paper cuts).

The worst part of your article was the snotty and superior tone of your follow up after Stewart mentioned your piece on air. Your “I’ll be the judge of whether you’re sexist or not” tone smacked of the half-informed smugness of a second year MA student who distastefully revels in her new-found ability to judge others’ political correctness.”

Well said, glorptok. I’d comment after you and say “well-said,” but I haven’t auditioned yet.

****I encourage everyone to read this blog post by LaToya Peterson: The “Or” versus the “And” – Women of Color and Mainstream Feminism.

[UPDATE: Oh, I almost forgot. Hey, Tiger Beatdown? This? Not funny at all. In any sense. And it's sad that the commenters seem so gleeful over it. What Tiger Beatdown's attempted parody letter does is assume that the fully capable women who work on The Daily Show and came to the defense of their employer were somehow coerced into writing it. Because, you know... women cower before Jon Stewart, and what with their vaginas making them all insecure and whatnot, they couldn't possibly know how to speak for themselves. Again, render unto me a fucking break.]

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0 Responses to Jezebel vs. Jon Stewart

  1. FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC.

    You’ve outlined everything that is wrong about Jezebel and its commenters–reactionary bullshit that only works to get more people riled up over nothing while missing larger problems. Self-righteousness, hypocrisy and kneejerk reactions to everything. It’s a joke to even call what they do ‘feminist’.

  2. pardon me my ineloquence: word.

  3. The saddest part is that you KNOW they’re just looooving the attention everyone is giving them over…writing a fucking horrible article. Any publicity is good publicity, right?

  4. Oh my God, for once, for ONCE I don’t completely agree with you. I’m soooo excited.

    But I should say first that I do mostly agree with you on your most important points:

    1) that was a terrible piece of reporting on Jezebel’s part and an even more terrible response. I, too, wonder how long they waited for comment before rolling with that article. And I could have come up with about 10 better responses than Cameron off the top of my head.

    2) the Jezebel comment system is exclusionary. I don’t comment for the same reasons as you. They say that it’s too hard to monitor the comments, but I feel like they’re choosing not to take on this cost out of laziness kind of like airlines choose not to update their computer systems, so that familie might easily sit together, even though coming up with an algorithm to do so wouldn’t be all that expensive and would most definitely earn them more dollars for decent customer service. Yes, I am flying with my family tomorrow and am bitter b/c we weren’t able to book seats together even though we bought our tickets together. Why do you ask.

    ANYWAY getting back to the part where I don’t completely agree with you.

    1) TDS has very few women writers. I mean weirdly few. I don’t care if the accountant and the pa and all the assistants are women, the fact is when it comes to what is put on the air, even though we make up a good part of TDS’s audience, there are few women producing the content and that’s a problem. I don’t watch TDS b/c of this issue just like I try not to support any organization that makes a practice out of not including women.

    2) however, I don’t think this a black and white issue. I, myself, have never written a spec script for the daily show. I know several men who have done so, but no women. I have to wonder if they’re indeed looking but not finding. As someone who has been a bit mommy-tracked in her career, I think what Jez should have investigated is why so few women seek out the opportunity to work in late night.

    3) as someone who used to write jokes for a living, I’m telling you right now there is a double standard when it comes to funny women. We get second-guessed and micromanaged in a way that funny guys often don’t. I’m on my iPad and I’m not that great at forming compelling arguments, but I’ve got a few stories if we ever see each other out at a party. Also, the audience doesn’t often get a chance to decide if we’re funny, b/c there’s often some guy assuring us that we’re not.

    4) you’re doing the same thing that jez did with Olivia Munn by so easily dismissing Latoya Peterson’s contributions to Jezebel. We’ve no idea why LP doesn’t blog more for them — my first guess would be b/c she has her own blog to run. And if I’m recalling right, it’s not just whit e women over at Jezebel.

    5) further to point #4, I wonder how many WOC are submitting for jobs at Jez. They have a pretty cool republish system that could get WOC in the door, but if we’re not submitting, it’s kind of hard to talk ish. I know I haven’t submitted anything (no time, not brilliant enough). Have you?

    Here’s hoping that I don’t disagree with you again. It takes so long, and in the end I still don’t feel like vie done a proper job of explaining myself. Ah well….

    Sorry for any and all grammar/spelling mistakes. The stoopid iPad doesn’t allow for scrolling upwards to check your work. Ah well a second time.

    4) sam

    • My disagreement with your disagreement is as follows:

      I didn’t intend to dismiss LaToya’s contributions, but only to point out that she is the only woman of color who “regularly” contributes there (as far as I’m aware… and I could very well be wrong). I’m sure it’s because she’s too busy running Racialicious, but that doesn’t excuse the fact (if, in fact,) there aren’t other women of color on staff. I could very well be wrong and if I am, I will happily eat my words.

      With respect to Olivia Munn, she was immediately dismissed by the Jezebel crowd as not funny, and then people jumped to the conclusion that she was hired only because she has sex appeal.

      I don’t think I did the same thing. I enjoy LaToya’s contributions and I read her blog.

      Admittedly, I do not frequent Jezebel that much anymore because every time I do, I get annoyed.

      I haven’t submitted anything to them because I don’t like the community they’ve formed (and I’m not sure I’d cut the mustard anyway). But there are a lot of WOC out there with blogs. Maybe they’re not submitting for the same reasons I’m not? I don’t know. But generally, the blog content is pretty one-sided.

      I’d love to hear your stories about writing jokes, since I’m attempting to start doing that myself!

      I agree with your disagreement about the lack of women getting content on air. I just didn’t like the tone of Tiger Beatdown parody; it was condescending to the women who work behind the scenes.

      Let’s not agree again! It’s fun!

      (P.S. My book hasn’t arrived yet and I’m getting angry at Amazon!)

  5. Hey look, I can comment on your blog without auditioning! Yay! I agree.

  6. *slow clap*

    feckin’ brillz, dude. feckin’ brillz.

  7. silentnoodles

    The only thing I have to contribute is that I am a woman and I think Olivia Munn is funny…probably cause I am not the most mature person and maybe because I am a dork but none the less I like her.

  8. And this, THIS is why ABL is the hotness – because she utilizes reason.

    Yes, I know – reason without passion blah blah blah – but Jezebel seizes upon multiple logical fallacies in their insular little vagiverse and has no sense of the rest of the universe.

    Sad, really.

  9. That was incredible.

    You’re not the New York Times, yo. You’re a blog.

    You know, that’s so freaking obvious it shouldn’t have even needed to be said. But it’s kinda sad how excited I got that somebody finally did say it, because my god, some of those Jezzie writers/commentors seem to have forgotten it.

  10. One part of the article you forgot to comment on, I guess? “(A representative for Comedy Central said they would be unable to participate in this story.)”

    And the use of “many women,” BTW, could actually be valid. Keep in mind she’s talking about correspondents and writers–there haven’t been many women in either of those positions, particularly in recent history.

    • I guess I didn’t think that part was such a surprise. A lot of networks, companies, and whatnot refuse to comment on stories like this. I don’t think that necessarily is an indictment.

      I’m not saying that TDS doesn’t have a “lady problem” I’m just saying she didn’t make her case.

      I agree with you–there haven’t. But my point is that she says “many women have felt marginalized” when she only mentioned a few. She seems to have found a few former staffers and then made a generalization. Maybe lots of women have felt and do feel marginalized. She just based her case based on flimsy evidence, in my opinion.

      thanks for reading. :)

  11. “I don’t care if the accountant and the pa and all the assistants are women, the fact is when it comes to what is put on the air, even though we make up a good part of TDS’s audience, there are few women producing the content and that’s a problem.”

    I gotta leave this story alone, but I just can’t. The TDS letter lists a full 9 women as producers and another 4 support staffers in production. One is listed as Producer/Executive in Charge of Production and another is Co-Executive Producer. These ladies are not mopping floors, they are making decisions about what (and who) makes it on air. Just wanted to point that out, as I’ve been seeing a lot of people making the argument that women on TDS don’t hold positions of power. Producers are decision-makers in TV.

    (That said, ernessa, I think you make some interesting points. Also, stopthemadness, I follwed from Pajiba and have now bookmarked you because you rock). The end.

  12. I’m late to the party on this one, because it just seemed like such a non-issue when the ‘story’ broke, but I’ve been catching up on it and I must say your post is the most refreshing one I’ve read. (I will now bookmark your blog, and look forward reading more of your perspective).

    Something that I’ve not seen mentioned in any of the articles or rantings anywhere is how actually inspired is the hiring of Olivia Munn on TDS. All these educated politically correct women slinging mud and not one sees what TDS has done for chipping away at at least three deeply ingrained western stereotypes:

    1) Gorgeous women can’t be funny.
    2) Gorgeous women can’t be intelligent enough to have a sardonic humour.
    3) Asian gals*** don’t do crass humour. (***Although OM is of multi-racial background, it’s her Chinese half that gets mentioned–but that’s a whole different discussion…)

    Anyway, if the show’s audience is in fact 60% male, isn’t this the kind of correspondent hiring that should be applauded? I mean, I would like my godson and goddaughters to see that beauty/brains/humour do indeed commingle.

    • thank you, tlee, i appreciate it!

      and i agree with you wholeheartedly. TDS hired a hot non-white funny woman who can “hang with the boys.” of course being able to, or even stating that you can hang with the boys is seen as rejecting women in favor of men (a bs assumption), and of course the women at jezebel know what sort of woman TDS should have hired.

      i have found in my own experience, that being able to “hang with the boys” allows me to chip away at their biases about funny women and women in general, but from the inside, which can be more effective than accusing every man of being a misogynist right out of the gate simply because they may not understand that something they have said or done smacks of misogyny.

      yes, women can be funny, and drink beer, and watch sports, and read comic books and play video games, and hey, if you’re hot, why not use that to your advantage? does it necessarily make you a part of a patriarchal society? no, i don’t think so.

      also, i hadn’t even thought about the “asian gals don’t do crass humor” aspect, but that’s a very good point. margaret cho was pretty groundbreaking in that respect.

      anyway, thanks for reading and commenting. :)

      • STM, I kept zipping up & down the commentary trying to find that sentence you wrote about female comediennes being placed in a lesser class (my words, not yours) – please don’t take that all-exclusivatory assumption with all men-

        Middle-age fat balding white guy here thinks the most amazing, original and creative humor of at least the last decade has come overwhelmingly from the ladies: Degeneres, K Griffin, W Sykes, the incredible Tina Fey, S Silverman, J Garafalo, the writer Mary Roach, the super- talented-and gorgeous Aisha Tyler- too many more I could name here.

        Funny is FUUNNY, and I treasure the old masters, Carlin & Pryor.. but to discount the overwhelming contributions the women have brought to the ‘humor’ business so far is narrow-minded and CERTAINLY the province of tight-ass, conservative men who feel it necessary to make a distinction. Fuck ‘em, I say.

  13. Are you a man hating lesbian or what? What is wrong with you?

  14. I’m way late to the party on this, but this is the greatest smackdown of that bullshit fauxminist Jezebel pathetic attention-grabber (I love how Irin Carmon’s “objective portrayal” of Stewart’s professionalism appears to be gleaned from TMZ) since the women of The Daily Show replied themselves. Thank you, thank you, THANK you!

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